KQs UTG+2, every street debatable

[reutel]

Every street is debatable in my opinion. Thought it would be an interesting hand to discuss. The table was loose and aggressive pf (1 raise, 5-6 people to the flop), somewhat passive postflop

UTG+1 raises first in. He is a decent player(textbook TAG) and definatly a winner. I call, since 6 people likely come to the flop with K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. One moronic guy joins us in late position, sb calls, the bb threebangs, and everyone calls. The bigblind is a loser. He does not know what is going on in most hands. He is not standard loose-passive though.

We see the flop of J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in a 15 sb pot 5 handed.

The sb and the bb (threebetter pf) check, UTG+1( original raiser) raises. I call with my gutter and backdoor flushdraw, moron calls, sb folds, bb raises, and we all call.

The turn is J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for 11.5 bb

bb bets, UTG+1 raises, I call with my flushdraw and gutter, moron folds, bb threebets, UTG+1 caps it and I fold.

It really felt yucky to call-fold in this spot. Do you fold the first time? The second time? Do you peel the flop?

[BadBigBabar]

fold the flop please

[slavic]

[ QUOTE ]
UTG+1 raises first in. He is a decent player(textbook TAG) and definatly a winner.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know about you, but my hand range becomes pretty narrow on an aggressive table when step A happens.

You have several options, I normally go with the two card pitch, but pushing the cards slightly forward and removing your marker works just as well.

[reutel]

BadBigBabar,

You fold the first or the second time on the flop? I thought it reasonable to put the original raiser on an A, and bb on some pair that didn't hit the flop, therefore he checked. You really fold getting 1-16?

Slavic:
Of course I would fold if I didn't expect 6 people to be in the hand with me. I don't think I am that bad in this spot though:
Hands: Combo's Equity
ATs+, AJ+, TT+ 82 27.2%
KhQh 1 21.9%
** 1326 12.7%
** 1326 12.7%
** 1326 12.8%
** 1326 12.7%

[leo doc]

[ QUOTE ]
fold the flop please

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the BBB here. The problem with this flop is that your gut shot, and possibly flush outs, may not be good. Paired paint boards with this kind of PF action spell trouble for non-nut holdings IMO.

Also, the flop check after the 3-bet PF by BB is highly suspect, especially given your description of BB. On-line, that's frequently a poorly played monster or a monster draw (KcQc).

And lastly, you said the table had been somewhat passive post-flop. Seems like a couple of guys have "woke up" here.

[LerkEr]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
fold the flop please

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with the BBB here. The problem with this flop is that your gut shot, and possibly flush outs, may not be good. Paired paint boards with this kind of PF action spell trouble for non-nut holdings IMO.

Also, the flop check after the 3-bet PF by BB is highly suspect, especially given your description of BB. On-line, that's frequently a poorly played monster or a monster draw (KcQc).

And lastly, you said the table had been somewhat passive post-flop. Seems like a couple of guys have "woke up" here.

[/ QUOTE ]

[sparky3474]

Is coming into this hand with a raise out of the question here?

[James.]

[ QUOTE ]
fold preflop please

[/ QUOTE ]

[Frond]

Your description of UTG+1 should make your PF decisions fairly easy.

You consider changing seats if possible?

[Yepitis]

You were trying to peel the flop and it just got uglier and uglier. You don't have the nut flush draw, full house may already be out there but this pot is huge.

If you hit your flush you might have to pay 4 bets to call it down plus the two you still need on the turn. Ugly. Good fold.

Don't tell me you would have hit the flush and they both had jack crap.