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  #1  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:07 PM
ptartaglio ptartaglio is offline
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Default JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

Very interesting...check it out:

http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329

I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead.
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  #2  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:26 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...check it out:

http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329

I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone that thinks this hand is dead does not understand tournament rules and procedures. The dealer should have called for the floor first, but you cannot muck when a player is all in. I am glad Mike Ward has it exactly right.
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  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:26 PM
Matt Savage Matt Savage is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
Very interesting...check it out:

http://www.cardplayer.com/tv/29329

I can't believe what I just saw the dealer do. Is that procedure in most major circuit tournaments? I know that the all-in player most flip over his hand to protect against collusion but it should at least be ruled dead.

[/ QUOTE ]

It was the right decision, when heads up and all-in cards must be turned face up. I saw the clip and even though it WAS obvious the guy was stupidly trying to fold the ruling was correct.

Matt Savage


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  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 05:24 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.
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  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 05:33 PM
Matt Savage Matt Savage is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states

"All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."

The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake.

Matt
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  #6  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:56 PM
0524432 0524432 is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states

"All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."

The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the feeling you would rather not answer the question, but just in case you missed it...Do you agree that the rule itself, which has been stated as fact to be enforced to deter collusion, is more valuable than allowing hands to be pulled from the muck that were intentionally folded allowing a player to awkwardly pull back their cards and push their chips forward, as he is obviously reversing a mistake he has made?
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  #7  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:28 PM
Matt Savage Matt Savage is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Matt, given the video evidence of what happened. I know it was a correct "ruling" given the current guidelines. However, can you honestly tell me you think this is the most REASONABLE action, given the circumstances? If so, please explain how this is the most viable option.

[/ QUOTE ]

Quite simply it is the rule, TDA Rule #9 states

"All cards will be turned face up once a player is all-in and all betting action is complete."

The dealer did his job by opening his hand. I totally agree this guy was trying to muck his hand and tried to say he was tying to turn it up. If JC would have one this hand it would have been mistake.

Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

I have the feeling you would rather not answer the question, but just in case you missed it...Do you agree that the rule itself, which has been stated as fact to be enforced to deter collusion, is more valuable than allowing hands to be pulled from the muck that were intentionally folded allowing a player to awkwardly pull back their cards and push their chips forward, as he is obviously reversing a mistake he has made?

[/ QUOTE ]

So let me get it straight, on a called all-in bet with NO MORE ACTION you think it is OK for the worst hand to win?

Matt
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  #8  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:33 PM
Killingbird Killingbird is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

I think what it comes down to is...

(a) that the dealer made the correct decision based on the rules.

(b) that really sucks for JC.

(c) that guy was kind of a douche with his whole "I didnt muck, i turned my cards up" routine.

Right result...horrible circumstances.
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  #9  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:35 PM
stephenNUTS stephenNUTS is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
I think what it comes down to is...

(a) that the dealer made the correct decision based on the rules.
(b) that really sucks for JC.

(c) that guy was kind of a douche with his whole "I didnt muck, i turned my cards up" routine.

Right result...horrible circumstances.

[/ QUOTE ]

100% [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:36 PM
RR RR is offline
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Default Re: JC Tran Controversy at Foxwoods

[ QUOTE ]
(a) that the dealer made the correct decision based on the rules.


[/ QUOTE ]

The correct thing is for the dealer to call the floor here. There are enough people out there that are going to insist the dealer is wrong that the floor needs to do it because he can rule and then leave the table.
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