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  #21  
Old 11-30-2007, 12:54 PM
well named well named is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

[ QUOTE ]
I think that this whole play is most likely -EV at 10nl just bc ppl dont like to fold TP

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Mathematically, I don't see how this can be -EV at any level against AJo with no hearts calling, given the dead money in the pot. Of course, it's marginally +EV at best, or perhaps taking preflop into account even marginally -EV. Either way, I'm pretty sure getting it on the flop maximizes the amount of equity you actually get out of the hand.
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  #22  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:00 PM
ama0330 ama0330 is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think that this whole play is most likely -EV at 10nl just bc ppl dont like to fold TP

[/ QUOTE ]

Mathematically, I don't see how this can be -EV at any level against AJo with no hearts calling, given the dead money in the pot. Of course, it's marginally +EV at best, or perhaps taking preflop into account even marginally -EV. Either way, I'm pretty sure getting it on the flop maximizes the amount of equity you actually get out of the hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was referring to the turn, not the flop.

Board: 7h 2h Js Kc
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 24.621% 24.62% 00.00% 130 0.00 { Th8h }
Hand 1: 75.379% 75.38% 00.00% 398 0.00 { AJs, AJo }
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  #23  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:03 PM
derosnec derosnec is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop doesnt matter anyway, its postflop where the money is made/lost.

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Preflop matters a lot in NL when in early position.

Now I'm not arguing whether he should or should not have raised T8s utg (really he's in MP), I just wanted to know what his reasoning was.
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  #24  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:26 PM
well named well named is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

[ QUOTE ]
I was referring to the turn

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img] Sorry. I agree with you then.

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Turn is a sick play but given that hes def got a jack (or maybe a dumb FD) I think you get a fold a lot of the time here.

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I'm not sure I agree that he must always have a jack. His line is pretty strong and a set is not out of the question.

I think I have two problems with the turn bluff:

1) I don't feel like you can adequately represent a king here given the flop call. Did you call with AK with no hearts? If you called the flop with KJ would you really shove the turn? If you had AKhh wouldn't you raise the flop?

2. At 10NL, as mentioned, bluffing to fold out TPTK should be a rare play. (Although it's sweet when it works.)

So basically against a good, observant player, the line looks awfully fishy, and you might get looked up by someone who figures it for a semi-bluff with exactly the kind of hand you have, and against a bad player you just don't get enough folds.
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  #25  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:27 PM
thoman8r thoman8r is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

IMO you played it fine. In general, doing stuff like this at NL10 is -EV but sometimes it's ok. As has been previously mentioned, it depends a lot on the table. Flop is ok. Shoving is also ok but it's high variance. As played, I like the turn play a lot as long as this guy isn't a total station. However, had the turn been a blank you would need to fold to his bet.
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  #26  
Old 11-30-2007, 01:30 PM
wingchunflush wingchunflush is offline
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Default Re: Interesting hand 10nl How do you play it?

I have no problem playing suited 1 gappers if I am pretty sure that I can see the flop for just the price of my raise. I am not going to stack off on a T24 flop or anything like that.
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