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  #41  
Old 11-29-2007, 09:26 AM
RowdyZ RowdyZ is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
i havent read that book or even seen it, but the exact pharse "illusion of action" was coined by dave when writing our book that hasnt made it to print. i find it very troubling that he uses it simlarly to our use and was privy to the part of the manuscript that few have seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
hasn't made it to print yet

[/ QUOTE ] .. Does this mean there is still a chance it might be published?

RZ
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  #42  
Old 11-29-2007, 01:52 PM
tipperdog tipperdog is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
i havent read that book or even seen it, but the exact pharse "illusion of action" was coined by dave when writing our book that hasnt made it to print. i find it very troubling that he uses it simlarly to our use and was privy to the part of the manuscript that few have seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ray,

I can assure you--from personal experience--that Barry has been using the phrase "Illusion of Action" with his students for years.
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  #43  
Old 11-29-2007, 02:59 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

Apparently Ray had the illusion of intellectual property theft.
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  #44  
Old 11-29-2007, 05:07 PM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
i havent read that book or even seen it, but the exact pharse "illusion of action" was coined by dave when writing our book that hasnt made it to print.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, expect a quick change of mind by Mason. His book review will now reverse to saying that Illusion of Action is correct, but it is a 2+2 Publishing idea.

Remember, there are only 2 types of ideas that are published in non-2+2 books.

1) Those that have not appeared in 2+2 books, and are therefore incorrect
2) Those that are correct, and therefore must be plagiarized from 2+2
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  #45  
Old 11-29-2007, 06:58 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i havent read that book or even seen it, but the exact pharse "illusion of action" was coined by dave when writing our book that hasnt made it to print.

[/ QUOTE ]

In that case, expect a quick change of mind by Mason. His book review will now reverse to saying that Illusion of Action is correct, but it is a 2+2 Publishing idea.

Remember, there are only 2 types of ideas that are published in non-2+2 books.

1) Those that have not appeared in 2+2 books, and are therefore incorrect
2) Those that are correct, and therefore must be plagiarized from 2+2

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO you just crossed the gray line. That goes too far.
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  #46  
Old 11-29-2007, 07:19 PM
MicroBob MicroBob is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

not to mention that Mason isn't even publishing Ray's book apparently.
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  #47  
Old 11-30-2007, 02:47 AM
JackCase JackCase is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
i havent read that book or even seen it, but the exact pharse "illusion of action" was coined by dave when writing our book that hasnt made it to print. i find it very troubling that he uses it simlarly to our use and was privy to the part of the manuscript that few have seen.

[/ QUOTE ]

A quick Google shows that Mason uses the term in "Poker Essays, Volume II" (1996), and the phrase appears in other internet poker discussions at least as far back as the late 1990's (including an archived 2+2 post by Sklansky in 1998).
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  #48  
Old 11-30-2007, 04:13 AM
Mason Malmuth Mason Malmuth is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

Hi Jack:

Poker Essays was first published in 1991 and the term was in that edition. Here's the quote from the current edition from the essay "The Future of Poker."

[ QUOTE ]
Game No. 3: Limit hold ’em. At the middle limits, more limit hold ’em is played than any other game in the cardrooms of Nevada and California. I think the short-term luck factor in this game needs to be a little larger to make it ideal, but this game does contain an “illusion of action” like no other form of poker. Consequently, limit hold ’em may have the best future of all forms of poker.

[/ QUOTE ]

So, as usual, these terms have been around a long time. Also, the essays in Poker Essays were all from original columns in the early editions of Card Player. So this essay may have appeared in print as early as 1989.

Best wishes,
Mason
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  #49  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:18 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
So, as usual, these terms have been around a long time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course, you used it in a completely different way.
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  #50  
Old 11-30-2007, 10:25 AM
jeffnc jeffnc is offline
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Default Re: Review, Advanced Limit Holdem Strategy (Tanenbaum)

[ QUOTE ]
Remember, there are only 2 types of ideas that are published in non-2+2 books.

1) Those that have not appeared in 2+2 books, and are therefore incorrect
2) Those that are correct, and therefore must be plagiarized from 2+2

[/ QUOTE ]

IMHO you just crossed the gray line. That goes too far.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I was exaggerating a little obviously. But the basic principle is there. It's clear from all the silly posturing Mason has done vis a vis book discussions over the past few years. He is so biased and immature at times that he really should recuse himself from reviewing any books at all. Any objective person who has read some of his posts in certain threads knows exactly what I'm talking about. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's unethical for him to review other books (it's his prerogative in a free country), but there are a lot of people who think he has nearly 0 credibility because of his lack of objectivity and maturity.
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