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  #1  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:01 PM
flytrap flytrap is offline
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Location: Motor City Casino and Full Tilt Poker
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Default How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

At the casino I play at, if the flop betting isn't complete, but the dealer burns and turns early, the exposed card gets shuffled back in, but before they shuffle, they burn and turn, and the card that previously would have been the river, now becomes the turn. Players bet the turn, and now the exposed card gets shuffled back, and a new river is brought out. Essentially what happened was, I was heads up, and the dealer wasn't paying attention. I bet the flop, my opponent checkraised, and I pushed all-in. Before my opponent had the chance to call, the dealer burned and turned. After the floor was called, and my opponent was informed that the exposed card wouldn't be the turn unless it came out by chance, he decided to call. If the dealer had been paying attention, and doing their job, I win an $1800 pot. Because of their negligence, a new card came up, and my opponent sucked out. Since we were able to see both the old turn and river, I know 100% that I would have won without the dealer mistake. Yes, mistakes happen, and yes, it's possible that this mistake could benefit me. But it didn't. I've never been on the other side of this situation. Dealers have absolutely no accountability. If the casino accidentally subtracted $1800 from a dealer's paycheck, and gave it to someone else, then told the dealer, 'sorry, mistakes happen, nothing we can do' I bet that dealer would be outraged and demand justice. Well, I'm not getting that pot, so I'm thinking about withholding tips until the withheld money is around $1800. I play around 30 hours per week, and probably win 2 pots an hour. That works out to 30 weeks of not tipping. Maybe 25 since sometimes I tip more than a dollar. As a professional poker player, EVERY mistake I make costs me money. Dealers should be held to the same standard. Perhaps I'm being childish, but I'm owed 1800 and this is the only way I could think of to legally get it back. Thoughts?
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  #2  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:03 PM
JackInDaCrak JackInDaCrak is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

rob the dealer in the parking lot for his 200 tips for 9 consecutive shifts
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  #3  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:05 PM
goofyballer goofyballer is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

Are you serious?

From an EV standpoint the dealer didn't cost you anything. When your opponent called your all-in he had no idea what either the turn and river were going to be (just that one specific card would not come on the turn but had the same chance of coming out on the river as every other card in the deck). Two random cards were put out on the turn and river and unfortunately you lost.

Would you still be making this thread if the original turn and river would have lost you the hand, but the newly-dealt river didn't?
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  #4  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:09 PM
flytrap flytrap is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

I don't care about EV, I'm talking about dealer accountability. In this poker room, tips are pooled, so motivation for the dealers to do well is lacking. Should they not be punished in some way for their ineptitude?
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  #5  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:16 PM
psandman psandman is offline
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Location: Vegas
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
I don't care about EV, I'm talking about dealer accountability. In this poker room, tips are pooled, so motivation for the dealers to do well is lacking. Should they not be punished in some way for their ineptitude?

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly how many jobs out there are there where nobody makes a mistake. or where if you make a mistake your pay is docked.

Doctor amputates your left leg instead of removing your third nipple and his insurance pays the settlement and he keeps on doing operating. When was the last time you heard of an airline pilot having to reimburse everyone for an airplane crash?

This dealer made a mistake, which was as likely to help you as it was to hurt you and you want him to be paying yopu back because you ended up losing the hand?
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  #6  
Old 11-28-2007, 06:41 PM
Poshua Poshua is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

/thread
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  #7  
Old 11-28-2007, 08:02 PM
jesse8888 jesse8888 is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

I have a question: technically speaking, doesn't this procedure give his opponent a slight advantage? For example, suppose there is a 2 flush on board and the "fake" turn card completes it? He now knows that the odds of the flush completing on the turn are actually a little lower than usual because one of the flush cards is not eligible to come out on the turn. Or even worse, suppose his opponent holds an UI pocket pair, and the fake turn would have spiked him a set? Now he knows that card is not coming on the turn....
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  #8  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:17 PM
Jeffage Jeffage is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

I have seen this happen many times, and it has both cost me pots and won me pots. It is certainly the fairest way for the error to be fixed. I understand it can help as easily as it can hurt. But it is still irritating when it occurs - win, lose or draw.

If it is a good dealer that just made a bonehead mistake, ok, it happens. If, however, it is a dealer that NEVER follows the simple procedure of tapping the felt a few times before burning and dealing a card and/or doesn't pay attention to the game or is careless, then it is unacceptable. This is the type of thing regular players learn to put up with, but it can cause a casual player to never return.

Jeff
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  #9  
Old 11-28-2007, 07:27 PM
Seb86 Seb86 is offline
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

Dealer cost you 0$. And you are not a pro, really, you are a degenerate who think he has a clue.
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  #10  
Old 11-28-2007, 09:06 PM
zepthiir zepthiir is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: How long do I withhold tips? Dealer mistake costs me $1800. (long)

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Doctor amputates your left leg instead of removing your third nipple and his insurance pays the settlement and he keeps on doing operating. When was the last time you heard of an airline pilot having to reimburse everyone for an airplane crash?


[/ QUOTE ]

Your analogy is flawed, in the case of the doctor it most certainly IS the doctor who is accountable and required to pay any compensation. The fact he has insurance and makes a claim to them to cover that compensation is irrelevant because if he had no insurance he would be paying out of his own pocket.

Exactly how many jobs out there are there where nobody makes a mistake. or where if you make a mistake your pay is docked.

Doctor amputates your left leg instead of removing your third nipple and his insurance pays the settlement and he keeps on doing operating. When was the last time you heard of an airline pilot having to reimburse everyone for an airplane crash?

This dealer made a mistake, which was as likely to help you as it was to hurt you and you want him to be paying yopu back because you ended up losing the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]
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