Why did man evolve an...........

Stu Pidasso · #1 08-13-2007, 04:53 AM

appreciation for art and music? I just can't see how those abilities fit well with the whole "survival of the fittest" concept. The only explanation I can think of is those abilities are simply byproducts of the ability to recognize patterns. However that explanation just doesn't feel right. We appreciate art and music too much for it to be a byproduct.

Stu

soon2bepro · #2 08-13-2007, 05:17 AM

I'm not really sure, but it's not just humans. Some apes like certain types of music. Birds sing to attract a mate. Various animals are attracted to the opposite sex's colorful, shiny looks.

smurfitup · #3 08-13-2007, 05:56 AM

i was actually thinking about this the other day. my evo. psych prof in college said that the best hypothesis to date for why man has developed the ability for music, art, etc. is to signal its reproductive fitness to the other sex. in other words, no one knows.

Stu Pidasso · #4 08-13-2007, 07:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
i was actually thinking about this the other day. my evo. psych prof in college said that the best hypothesis to date for why man has developed the ability for music, art, etc. is to signal its reproductive fitness to the other sex. in other words, no one knows.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think thats a quite a stretch. However I could consider it reasonable if other primates used art or music to attract mates.

Stu

Stu Pidasso · #5 08-13-2007, 07:15 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not really sure, but it's not just humans. Some apes like certain types of music. Birds sing to attract a mate. Various animals are attracted to the opposite sex's colorful, shiny looks.

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I don't think those are fair comparisions to anything man experiences. They are not only out of the ball park, they are not even in the same state.

Stu

tame_deuces · #6 08-13-2007, 07:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
appreciation for art and music? I just can't see how those abilities fit well with the whole "survival of the fittest" concept. The only explanation I can think of is those abilities are simply byproducts of the ability to recognize patterns. However that explanation just doesn't feel right. We appreciate art and music too much for it to be a byproduct.

Stu

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I think your first question is excellent, but I think the conclusion at the end is false. Evolution is the process that shapes the final product, but the culture and society we live in can be vastly different and our interests differ greatly.

What I'm saying is that evolution is an excellent explanation to explain how something came to be and to explain our capacity for it, but sometimes you will have to go to society -> communication -> culture to explore it further, and then maybe you have to go back again.

And no, there is no inherent conflict between the two, and looking at either does not mean you in anyway deny or ignore the other. I guess a way of saying it is to say evolution shaped us and created inherent bias for certain things, and our culture is by-product of what we became that interacts with what we are.

roblin · #7 08-13-2007, 07:57 AM

A male who is so skilled at gathering food that he can spend lots of time on creating art obviously must have very good genes.

tame_deuces · #8 08-13-2007, 08:03 AM

[ QUOTE ]
A male who is so skilled at gathering food that he can spend lots of time on creating art obviously must have very good genes.

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Is this an argument, a question or a reflection? Its moderately poor as a question, simplified beyond having value as an argument and as a reflection it shows lack of knowledge.

Max Raker · #9 08-13-2007, 08:42 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
A male who is so skilled at gathering food that he can spend lots of time on creating art obviously must have very good genes.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this an argument, a question or a reflection? Its moderately poor as a question, simplified beyond having value as an argument and as a reflection it shows lack of knowledge.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe it was a joke? Why do has evolution given man a sense of humor? HOw does it aid in survival.

Prodigy54321 · #10 08-13-2007, 08:44 AM

this is a pretty wild guess...

it's really difficult to find the precise reasons behind human behaviors these days...

the best I can do is to think that making and appreciating music may be similar to other seemingly wasteful practices in nature...and this will typically lead us to think of sexual selection...

sexual selection can make pretty strange things happen...just think of all the mating rituals in the animal kingdom...many of them are very time and resource consuming. (even the physical nature of animals can be made very strange..like the many birds of paradise)...

the reason that this happens is typically because it is a show of superiority of some kind..

at least it is generally agreed, I think, that it started out that way...

but sexual selection has a way of reinforcing these displays of superiority...to the point that you can barely tell what superiority is being shown...this is because, even if the display, or ritual, or physical quality is cumbersome...a mate who refuses to give creedence to that quality will bear a child who is less likely to reproduce...even if that child is better off than majority since it is less likely to perform the display, or ritual, or physical quality...

anyway, I'm getting too deep to be sure I still know what I am talking about...just look for some books on sexual selection if you want a better explanation...

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the bottom line is that my hunch is that the creation of art and music and what not, as well as the appreciation of it (as attraction to displays, etc) are related to sexual selection.

Chicks dig musicians, LDO.