faith, religion, spirituality

JaBlue · #1 07-19-2007, 04:33 PM

Standing with my bike, waiting for the train. Dude asks me if it goes to Menlo Park. Yep. Then I explain how you have to choose a ticket before paying, tricky Caltrain machine. Dude thanks me, I get ready to hoist my bike on the train.

Overhear a bum ask for change. Look down, check pocket knowing that there's only a 20 in the wallet. Look up, get the finger.

The other dude comes back to talk to me, says Thanks for earlier.
No problem man.
He hands me a million dollar bill with Grover Cleveland (only president to win, lose, win elections) on the front and a long sentence that begins: Are you going to heaven... on the back.

We chat. Scott's a nice guy, and a Messianic Jew, or Jew that believes Jeshua, Jesus, was the Messiah. Didn't ask him what the difference was between a Messianic Jew and a Christian like I should have. Talked about religion a bit, told him I'm not religious but agnostic.

On the train I read the small pamphlet he gave me, very interesting. Will definitely read more, and especially will reread the Torah just because I should. Will probably remain agnostic but I got to thinking about spirituality. Lately I feel like I'm learning that spirituality for me means becoming more compassionate and selfless.

Discuss your spirituality.

Absolutely no bickering.

traz · #2 07-19-2007, 04:39 PM

I consider myself somewhat spiritual, but not especially religious

hexag1 · #3 07-19-2007, 04:43 PM

If I have any spirituality, its what I can feel presence of the harmony of nature, the mind numbing vastness of the universe, the endless complexity of living forms. These things can give me a sense of the numinous; of being part of something much greater than myself.
As for religious texts like the Bible or the Koran, or stories of creation from aboriginal tribes, I find them quaint. To me, many of the supposedly miraculous stories in these books seem positively mundane in the light of the discoveries of modern science. Who could be impressed by the burning bush in the Old Testament when compared to the photos taken by the Hubble? Who can be awed by the occasional miracles performed by prophets in holy books, when even now science can restore hearing to the deaf, and will soon restore sight to the blind, impregnate women who would otherwise be barren?
not me.

JaBlue · #4 07-19-2007, 04:59 PM

explain, traz.

DMC0627 · #5 07-19-2007, 05:03 PM

I am Wiccan/Pagan, I believe in a God and a Goddess. I try my best to follow the rede - an it harm none do what ye will. I was raised Catholic but that faith never felt right to me. I believe in karma and reincarnation as well. I spent a long time (age 12 to 25) being agnostic but in the back of my mind I always had an underlying belief there was something out there. Since accepting paganism I have to say I am a much happier person, and more at peace.

guids · #6 07-19-2007, 05:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I consider myself somewhat spiritual, but not especially religious

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not honest, but you're interesting

There is something greater, what it is? I dont know. Im not religious in the least, but hate when people bash it. Atheism imo = a religion. I really like the way the jews think about things

traz · #7 07-19-2007, 05:33 PM

Well. I consider myself spiritual in the sense that I think there are greater powers, there is a soul and more to life than just the body, the purpose of life, being truthful to yourself, being honorable, and those sorts of things, which is what i associate with spiritual.

I don't perscribe to any religion, so that's what i would call not especially religious.

If you consider atheism to be religious, then I suppose everyone is religious, so it becomes moot?

I believe in a higher power, but I do not think that equates to being religious.

hexag1 · #8 07-19-2007, 05:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Atheism imo = a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is way off.
Atheism isn't a dogma like Christianity or Hinduism. Religions, in the simplest terms, are telling you what to believe and how to live your life. Thats it. Atheism [if you can call it that] doesn't pretend to know how you should live your life or what to believe. Its just a word for the mindset of a person that demands evidence for his/her beliefs.
Consider it, are you an astrologer? No? Whats the word for that? There isn't one. Theres no term for an non astrologer. Nobody wakes up and says 'I'm not an astrologer' If there was such a term, would we view that mindset on the same terms as astrology? of course not. For you to say that Atheism is a religion is the same thing as saying that non astrology is a superstition on a par with astrology.
As you learn more about the world, alchemy gives way to chemistry, astrology gives way to astronomy, and religion gives way to natural philosophy, of which atheism is a part.

AnActualGirl · #9 07-19-2007, 05:39 PM

I just read "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris. I've never been really religous, although my family is, and I never understood why people bash religion so aggresively rather than just letting everyone believe what they want to believe if it makes them happy. The points Harris makes in his letter regarding organized religion (not just Christianity) and how it holds humanity back from becoming a more advanced civilization are really thought-provoking and made me understand the anger that some people feel towards religion.

I guess "quaint" is a good term for religion in my opinion; it served a great purpose hundreds of years ago to bring people together and 'explain' some mysteries of life, but to continue to hold to stories and prophecies in spite of scientific facts that contradict these believes is silly. Not to mention the numerous wars being fought in the name of religion around the world which should really call into question the benefit of organized religion.

guids · #10 07-19-2007, 05:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Atheism imo = a religion.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is way off.
Atheism isn't a dogma like Christianity or Hinduism. Religions, in the simplest terms, are telling you what to believe and how to live your life. Thats it. Atheism [if you can call it that] doesn't pretend to know how you should live your life or what to believe. Its just a word for the mindset of a person that demands evidence for his/her beliefs.
Consider it, are you an astrologer? No? Whats the word for that? There isn't one. Theres no term for an non astrologer. Nobody wakes up and says 'I'm not an astrologer' If there was such a term, would we view that mindset on the same terms as astrology? of course not. For you to say that Atheism is a religion is the same thing as saying that non astrology is a superstition on a par with astrology.
As you learn more about the world, alchemy gives way to chemistry, astrology gives way to astronomy, and religion gives way to natural philosophy, of which atheism is a part.

[/ QUOTE ]

re·li·gion
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

As far as the definition of religion, atheism is one imo. Atheist get just as fervent and unwilling to budge their beliefs, in probably about teh same ratio as christians. there are tons of similarities imo, and I fail to really see the difference.