.5/1 Turn set against manaic

[Daniel Magix]

:gurnch:
I don't understand the logic of calling the Turn raise, only to donk the River.
I just feel like typing out some thoughts on one scenario - Flush Draw:
Calling the Turn let's him see the River for as cheap as possible. Then donking the River gives him the opportunity to fold his missed draw. You win the least in this situation. If he had the flush draw and missed, a River check will get you more money. If he missed, he will either check behind or bluff. If he checks behind, you missed no river bets, since he was folding anyway. If he bluffs, you are calling and you make one more bet. A CC on the River also minimizes your losses when he actually has the flush.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Opponent doesn't just raise anything. He did cap Q7o the last hand. I wouldn't say he plays reasonable post flop just not awful.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what the hell this means. He doesn't raise ATC, but he capped Q7o, but he's reasonable postflop but he's not awful?

What exactly do you think "maniac" means? Why do you think this villan is one?

I don't get the stop-n-go, and your explanation that you wanted to play for 4 bets doesn't help much. How'd you come up with 4 bets?

[Sarge85]

Frankly i think not 3-betting the turn is silly. If he caps ya, see the river cheap.

SOOO many players like wait until the turn with two-pair, or exploit scare cards. When "mainacs" do that, you just let them bet, and call down-

Give them the rope - they'll do the rest.

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
Frankly i think not 3-betting the turn is silly. If he caps ya, see the river cheap.

SOOO many players like wait until the turn with two-pair, or exploit scare cards. When "mainacs" do that, you just let them bet, and call down-

[/ QUOTE ]

Long time no see.

Uh, your advice is a little self-contradictory. 3-betting and calling a cap is seeing the river "cheap"? When a maniac pops the turn, call down, but above you said to 3-bet.

Just pointing out some inconsitencies.

[Sarge85]

Sorry, i meant showdown, not just the river.

(good to be back)

Sarge[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

[neurotiq]

If he's really a maniac, I 3bet the turn without thinking. Your read kind of confused me, though, as to whether or not he is a maniac (is he betting and raising lightly with most any two cards?).

Actually, given read, I think I am still 3betting this turn. If he caps, I c/c the river if I don't fill up.

[vixticator]

Been a while. Let me respond to some questions. He was a preflop maniac and did get out of line on the flop quite a a bit. But, not some raising station. Capable of raising with air every street but not standard. Bets draws like the nuts, overvalues hands, etc.

So not "reasonable" post-flop at all, just not entirely retarded... he played ok after flop once he put in all those bets PF more often than not--but nothing close to optimal. And he doesn't always cap/raise with garbage. His preflop selection just seemed random. Didn't play every hand, somewhere between 45-60vpip with like 35-40 raise.

I missed value on the turn if he had a flush draw and top pair, which I expect him to cap. At no point did I think I was behind but for some reason did not want to play turn/river for max value. IMO I should have 3bet turn for value, called cap and bet/call river.

If the flop were all clubs I am more inclined to think he slowplayed a flush. I thought he had Kx or Tx, a big club, maybe better. He did make a couple of attempts to win pots with nothing by raising every street a few times previous.

[bozlax]

vix, how many hands did you have on this guy?

[vixticator]

[ QUOTE ]
vix, how many hands did you have on this guy?

[/ QUOTE ]I can't seem to find the hand on PokerTracker from memory it was 40+ but less than 60.

[bozlax]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
vix, how many hands did you have on this guy?

[/ QUOTE ]I can't seem to find the hand on PokerTracker from memory it was 40+ but less than 60.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how you can have this finely-grained a read on a guy after 50-ish hands.