4 bet with JJ

ahnuld · #1 03-31-2007, 12:32 PM

5/10 NL on party. UTG is laggy and aggro. Ive been repoping him a bit pre. Not sure if hes good or not yet. He makes it 35, gets called in 2 spots, and I make it 190. He makes it 600. Effective stacks are 1k. Do you push or fold?

jfish · #2 03-31-2007, 12:39 PM

..push

Yttrium · #3 03-31-2007, 01:33 PM

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..push

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YanTree · #4 03-31-2007, 01:40 PM

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..push

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??

anybody saying this is an auto push is a retard.

push sometimes. fold others. i dont think you can be that guy who will always fold JJ here and not let this guy abuse you, but pushing this 100% of the time is a huge leak IMHO

Yttrium · #5 03-31-2007, 01:43 PM

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..push

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??

anybody saying this is an auto push is a retard.

push sometimes. fold others. i dont think you can be that guy who will always fold JJ here and not let this guy abuse you, but pushing this 100% of the time is a huge leak IMHO

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great contribution, please keep posting

xorbie · #6 03-31-2007, 01:44 PM

What the hell does push sometimes, fold others mean? Either push or don't, one is right, the other is not. "Push sometimes, fold others" means you have to respond to how he is playing. Unless this guy is actually playing a perfect NE strategy, in which case Push = Fold = Call = Might as well stop playing since you are -EV in this game, there is a right and a wrong answer.

Yttrium · #7 03-31-2007, 01:46 PM

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What the hell does push sometimes, fold others mean? Either push or don't, one is right, the other is not. "Push sometimes, fold others" means you have to respond to how he is playing. Unless this guy is actually playing a perfect NE strategy, in which case Push = Fold = Call = Might as well stop playing since you are -EV in this game, there is a right and a wrong answer.

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I wish I wasn't lazy and an [censored], I probably would of posted something along these lines.

YanTree · #8 03-31-2007, 01:52 PM

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What the hell does push sometimes, fold others mean?

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It means that if you ran this scenario 100 times you would push say 32 times, fold 68 times.

So if you have to peg it down to just this one time, I suppose pull out an RNG and plug in your numbers and let that decide the outcome.

The point was that this is in no way a clear push.

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Either push or don't, one is right, the other is not.

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Disagree. Playing a methodical game where you always do anything in any specific spots (well besides maybe like calling all-ins when you have the nuts), is going to make you pretty readable dont you think?

aislephive · #9 03-31-2007, 02:03 PM

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What the hell does push sometimes, fold others mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means that if you ran this scenario 100 times you would push say 32 times, fold 68 times.

So if you have to peg it down to just this one time, I suppose pull out an RNG and plug in your numbers and let that decide the outcome.

The point was that this is in no way a clear push.

[ QUOTE ]
Either push or don't, one is right, the other is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. Playing a methodical game where you always do anything in any specific spots (well besides maybe like calling all-ins when you have the nuts), is going to make you pretty readable dont you think?

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Hmm, no. If the play is +EV you make it every time (assuming that there are no other higher EV plays).

xorbie · #10 03-31-2007, 02:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What the hell does push sometimes, fold others mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

It means that if you ran this scenario 100 times you would push say 32 times, fold 68 times.

So if you have to peg it down to just this one time, I suppose pull out an RNG and plug in your numbers and let that decide the outcome.

The point was that this is in no way a clear push.

[ QUOTE ]
Either push or don't, one is right, the other is not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Disagree. Playing a methodical game where you always do anything in any specific spots (well besides maybe like calling all-ins when you have the nuts), is going to make you pretty readable dont you think?

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"Specific spots" don't really come up again. If by "specific spot" you mean "a spot in which it is +EV" then yes I will continue to do it. If you just mean "any spot where I'm 4bet on" then obviously I won't. If, in this particular situation, it is +EV to push, you should push always, not sometimes.

Pushing with JJ always might make this guy tighten up, but since its a rather rare scenario, since you are going to be folding a lot here anyway (assuming you squeeze a fair amount), and since this guy has basically no way whatsoever of determining how often you fold JJ in these spots unless he is God himself, it's basically a terrible spot to decide to arbitrarily "mix it up".