Another more complicated Agree or Disagree

[Apathy]

Since I'm iffy on how the first one will work out I'll post this one now. Please read the other thread on discussion instructions.




For the purpose of this discussion you are playing HU NLHE. When your opponent raises in position before the flop and you call, he will ALWAYS bet the pot when checked to on the flop (c-bet).

Statement
In the above scenario, when you call OOP pf you should ALWAYS check the flop.

[DeMaci]

These seem very pointless if you're going to include the word ALWAYS.

[PartyGirlUK]

Disagree.

[Apathy]

[ QUOTE ]
Disagree.

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enlightening.

[PickyTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Disagree.

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enlightening.

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well it's hard to say anything if you dont mention how he reacts to you leading the flop.

[PickyTooth]

Btw I just saw your picture somewhere from the pca. We were sitting together on the plane going down there.

[Staycool]

disagree

i'll attempt a simple ex.

say i have 56hh flop is 4 6 T

i like a lead here some of the time, as my hand rates to be good, but it's not strong enough to make a check raise and calling down allows tons of scare cards to fall w/ zero info.

villain's pfr and aggression versus leads are obviously crucial.

[whitelime]

Disagree...I think "Always" really makes these hard to agree with.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
disagree

i'll attempt a simple ex.

say i have 56hh flop is 4 6 T

i like a lead here some of the time, as my hand rates to be good, but it's not strong enough to make a check raise and calling down allows tons of scare cards to fall w/ zero info.

villain's pfr and aggression versus leads are obviously crucial.

[/ QUOTE ]



checkraising = betting out in all of these scenarios except the pot is larger.

Also why did you choose hearts?

But why would a hand not be strong enough to checkraise but is strong enough to bet, when we have the exact same information about the opponent's hand in both cases and are betting the same amount relative to the pot? Doesn't seem logical to me somehow.

Shouldn't our bet out getting raised be just as bad as getting raised after making a check raise from a theoretical standpoint?

Ok basically we are just playing with shallower stacks if we use the checkraise option, and deeper stacks if we bet out.

[Staycool]

" checkraising = betting out in all of these scenarios except the pot is larger."

not at all. where does it say villain won't fold to our flop bet? i def. run into villains who cont bet 90% but don't raise leads with nearly the same frequency.

the case of a low middle or bottom pair OOP is one i see as pretty marginal against a strong player, and to avoid getting outplayed i'll sometimes aim to take it down on the flop. (Villains pfr% starts to be important in determining the best strategy, as is his ability to outplay us in position) anyhow, i was trying to think of a borderline example.

apathy, i think you owe us a better ex. to get this debate rolling.