JJ Turn CHECK RAISE!

Riceman · #1 05-15-2007, 04:07 AM

I hadn't been sitting for very long so I didnt have too much of a read on this guy, though I had seen him check raise the turn before and then fold the river. I see people do this so often and it seemed he was trying to represent a K here, but his flop play didn't indicate top pair. Is it bad to play back at him?

PokerStars 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Hero raises, 8 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.33 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (3.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero??

Niediam · #2 05-15-2007, 04:12 AM

I just call down.

If he has a hand that you beat do you really want him to fold it? There is almost zero chance that he will fold a hand which is beating you.

WalkAmongUs · #3 05-15-2007, 07:54 AM

call down. this is a WA/WB situation.

Grease · #4 05-15-2007, 10:23 AM

[ QUOTE ]
call down. this is a WA/WB situation.

[/ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. It's close, but it's not WA/WB. He could have as many as 8 outs if he has an OESD or 6 if he has AQ.

I would call, too, but I don't think WA/WB applies here.

TheCount212 · #5 05-15-2007, 12:09 PM

What's WA/WB please?

Harv72b · #6 05-15-2007, 05:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
What's WA/WB please?

[/ QUOTE ]

Probably the most misunderstood and misapplied facet of limit hold'em.

It stands for Way Ahead/Way Behind, when the action + board indicate that in a heads up pot we are either way ahead of our opponent (he is usually drawing to 3 outs or less against us) or way behind (we are drawing extremely thin against him). A typical scenario might be:

We raise UTG with AQo, folded to BTN who 3bets, folded to us & we call. Flop: A74r.

TheCount212 · #7 05-15-2007, 06:30 PM

lol thanks a lot harv. Had a hand nearly identical to that the other night (Q on flop instead of A) where my AQo crushed some joker's Q6o. God I love punishing jackals who play crap!

WalkAmongUs · #8 05-15-2007, 06:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
No, it's not. It's close, but it's not WA/WB. He could have as many as 8 outs if he has an OESD or 6 if he has AQ.

I would call, too, but I don't think WA/WB applies here.

[/ QUOTE ]

56, 9T, and AQ I would think would be the least likely things for villain to have other than a K. I'd much more likely put him on a pair below Kings or middle or bottom pair.

I rarely see anyone showing up UTG w/ 56, let alone check-raising an UTG+1 raiser on this board. If he's aggressive enough to check-raise the turn w/ AQ UI then he's almost always raising it from UTG. 9Ts would be the only OESD that would remotely make sense to me and thats only 4 combos out of his range.

thats my reasoning behind saying its WA/WB.