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  #141  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:56 PM
FireStorm FireStorm is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

Perhaps I'm missing something here, but what woulod legalizing poker really do to thwart potential criminals? Yes, legalizing it would regulate the issues of having large amounts of cash on hand, and would lead to increased security, but neither of these are a foolproof deterrent to men with shotguns. Clubs would still have to have people and/or an office with cash on hand, and I'm sure even a fraction of the "100k+" would be fine for street lowlives. As far as metal detectors, cameras, etc, yes, this would slow down criminals with a bit more consciousness of being caught, but this hasn't stopped people from trying to take down banks, restaurants, etc.

I suppose my reason for stating this fairly obvious facet is that I can't see why this issue would lead to a movement for legalizing these places. As far as the opposite end of the spectrum, it remains to be seen if this will lead to a higher rate of shutdowns.
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  #142  
Old 11-05-2007, 09:58 PM
bav bav is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

[ QUOTE ]
This is not an amusement park ride that is shut down so that it can be fixed (or so it can be determined whether there is a risk of repetition). This is not football or the other inherently dangerous activities listed by bav. This is poker -- an activity that is not inherently dangerous to life or limb -- being played in a place and manner where (1) the political/law enforcement authorities have determined that it is illegal, and (2) it has become the target of criminals with guns.

[/ QUOTE ]

Walking into a bar is taking your life into your own hands. There are more fights in and around bars than much of anywhere else in the country, and people die in these stupid altercations. I don't object at all to someone deciding it's too dangerous to go to a bar at night--that's their choice--but please don't go telling your representatives that all bars have to be closed because they're not safe.

Visiting Wal-Mart or the grocery store is not an inherently dangerous activity. Nobody expects to die or get hurt doing it. But do it after dark in a shady area, and you are significantly increasing your risk of harm. Should we ban after-dark shopping next time someone is shot in a KwikyMart parking lot at 11pm?

It's just a tremendously ridiculous notion to me that people are using a single tragic event to trumpet the position that NYC should further crack down on illegal clubs. It's just obvious to me it's still an individual's choice to make. We all know going to North Las Vegas to the 7-11 at 11pm is a bad idea, but some folks choose to do it. And we all know that when you go to any event where lotsa cash is likely to appear, a certain risk of robbery is attached, whether that event be a charity bingo fund raiser, an underground NYC poker room, or your corner bank's grand opening celebration.
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  #143  
Old 11-05-2007, 11:23 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

Guys - out of respect for Frank I'd prefer the legalization discussion be taken to a new thread. Lets try to keep this on topic, your arguments are valid and all deserve to be heard but we can find a better thread to discuss it in - thank you in advance.

TT - B&M forum moderator.
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  #144  
Old 11-06-2007, 01:03 AM
BBMW BBMW is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

Yeah, I know. Lawyers, financial analysts, investment bankers, lots of poorly educated, illiterate, degenerate poker players. [img]/images/graemlins/mad.gif[/img]
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  #145  
Old 11-06-2007, 02:57 AM
TiK TiK is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

I have had the good fortune to play poker with Frank quite a bit at the various NYC venues and what everyone has been saying about him thus far is spot on. A soft-spoken, kind man who was a pleasure to play with. A sad day, nay, a sad time for the poker world.
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  #146  
Old 11-06-2007, 08:44 AM
afish afish is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

One big difference between AC and a semi-private club is that you don't need to worry about the employees setting up a robbery/homicide.

NY Daily News reports that cops suspect inside job.
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  #147  
Old 11-06-2007, 11:12 AM
F-Train F-Train is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

They wanted to interview me too - three different major media outlets. I don't do interviews anymore though, because the angle is always the same and it never leads to good things for the rooms.

As for the robberies, they are textbook criminal opportunism. Running a club is a cash-heavy business in a gray area of the law (although, really, the clubs are pretty much black-and-white illegal under NY law), which means there's little incentive to invest heavily in security due to the uncertainty of the club's shelf life. That makes the clubs a perfect target.

Saying that this is the first shooting in 30 years may be true, but it's also the second armed robbery in 4 or 5 months. Safety has now become a much bigger concern than it ever was before.
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  #148  
Old 11-06-2007, 12:00 PM
*TT* *TT* is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

[ QUOTE ]
there's little incentive to invest heavily in security due to the uncertainty of the club's shelf life. That makes the clubs a perfect target.

[/ QUOTE ]

This couldn't be more wrong. I don't recall a single owner who didn't invest heavily in security, using much more security tools that most other cash businesses would use such as a bar, grocery store, or a nightclub. No matter what there is a certain point where security cannot protect the players, lives are far more important than money. What you fail to see is that security is a deterrent, it is not a solution. Security can also help identify robbers after the fact, but it cannot stop a robbery in progress. The other purpose of security is to identify after the fact - apparently the word on the street is that this component of security has succeeded.

Lets keep things in perspective. I used to own a nightclub in NYC, I saw more guns, drugs, shootings, etc in the nightlife biz than we will ever see at a poker club. At my club there was two shootings, and I was stuck up at gunpoint by two Mafia-wanabee, these are all things we never see in the NY poker scene. This is a risk that ANY cash-heavy business must take.

The poker clubs have a spotlight on them as a cash heavy business thanks to the media making ridiculous statements about a 100k or 200k bank. When this club was robbed there was a bit more than 30k on hand (this is confirmed) - less than many restaurants make in a day and this wasn't even profit, it was mostly the player's money. NY Post's exaggerations have hurt us all.
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  #149  
Old 11-06-2007, 02:23 PM
brettbrettr brettbrettr is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

[ QUOTE ]
and this wasn't even profit, it was mostly the player's money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Cash is cash to guys who are stealing cash. This doesn't matter at all.

And I thought we weren't meant to talk $ amounts? I find all of those listed in this thread to be wrong. Not very wrong but certainly wrong.

I also tend to disagree that clubs invest "heavily" in security. Its a cursory thing, perhaps making some people feel slightly safer. But if a club is going to be robbed its going to be robbed. So I wholeheartedly agree its a deterrent, nothing more. Nor should it be. The alternative--- beside much better security which is more costly but achievable and thus optimal---is armed security guards. This is a horrible idea.
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  #150  
Old 11-06-2007, 04:38 PM
madbrooklyn madbrooklyn is offline
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Default Re: NYC Poker Robbery and Shooting

Here's another article about Mr. DeSena:

http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr...jd2cWVlRUV5eTM=
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