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  #1  
Old 10-12-2007, 04:37 PM
MCS MCS is offline
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Default Jail for colluders?

If you mark cards (in Nevada), you can be arrested and jailed. If a poker room finds people colluding, are there any measures they can take other than 86ing them?

I really want there to be jail time for cheating, but it seems like collusion would be near impossible to prove legally.
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Old 10-12-2007, 04:51 PM
scott1 scott1 is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

much harder to prove.
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  #3  
Old 10-12-2007, 05:47 PM
Small Fry Small Fry is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

There are things a lot worse than jail that can happen to poker cheats......
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  #4  
Old 10-12-2007, 06:14 PM
DrewOnTilt DrewOnTilt is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

I think that the major problem lies in the fact that it is very difficult to prove intent.
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  #5  
Old 10-12-2007, 10:16 PM
bav bav is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

I cannot imagine a set of evidence adequate for a criminal conviction ever being amassed without cooperation from the inside. If one member of a collusion team flips, then yeah, it could happen. Otherwise, you just ain't likely to gather what's needed to present to a jury. 'Bout all you can hope for is for the casinos to figure it out and ban the cheats. Then if they come back to play, you snag 'em for trespassing.
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  #6  
Old 10-13-2007, 12:12 AM
BBMW BBMW is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

Is there any law, in Vegas or elsewhere, that could be used to prosecute colluding poker players? I don't think so. This pretty much falls into the same category as card counting teams.
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  #7  
Old 10-13-2007, 03:56 AM
psandman psandman is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

[ QUOTE ]
Is there any law, in Vegas or elsewhere, that could be used to prosecute colluding poker players? I don't think so. This pretty much falls into the same category as card counting teams.

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a fundamental difference between collusion in a poker game and a card counting team.

The reason card counting is not illegal is that it consists of knowledge of that which is intended to be known by the players that is you are counting the exposed cards.

Collussion in poker requires the conveyance of information secretly of information that is not of public knowledge.

As to whether collusion falls within Nevada's criminal laws.

Well I think an argument could be made that it is addressed by this:

NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:

2. To place, increase or decrease a bet or to determine the course of play after acquiring knowledge, not available to all players, of the outcome of the game or any event that affects the outcome of the game or which is the subject of the bet or to aid anyone in acquiring such knowledge for the purpose of placing, increasing or decreasing a bet or determining the course of play contingent upon that event or outcome.
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  #8  
Old 10-14-2007, 01:09 PM
Poshua Poshua is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

[ QUOTE ]
I cannot imagine a set of evidence adequate for a criminal conviction ever being amassed without cooperation from the inside. If one member of a collusion team flips, then yeah, it could happen. Otherwise, you just ain't likely to gather what's needed to present to a jury. 'Bout all you can hope for is for the casinos to figure it out and ban the cheats. Then if they come back to play, you snag 'em for trespassing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I can imagine a different situation, such as if the colluders had incriminating notes or emails which were discovered by the authorities. The trouble would be getting to the point in the investigation where they could get the necessary warrant for this info.

My guess is that there would be few winnable cases for the state, they would be difficult to identify and costly to prosecute, and that both the gambling regulators and the casino operators have higher priorities than poker collusion. This is because (1) collusion directly costs only other players, not the house, and (2) collusion is not so rampant that it's driving significant numbers of players away from poker.
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  #9  
Old 10-14-2007, 07:53 PM
carlgraham carlgraham is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

[ QUOTE ]
NRS 465.070 Fraudulent acts. It is unlawful for any person:

2. To place, increase or decrease a bet or to determine the course of play after acquiring knowledge, not available to all players, of the outcome of the game or any event that affects the outcome of the game or which is the subject of the bet or to aid anyone in acquiring such knowledge for the purpose of placing, increasing or decreasing a bet or determining the course of play contingent upon that event or outcome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Seems to me like this section could be used to prosecute someone who plays using knowledge gained while inadvertently seeing his neighbor's hole cards.

Cheers, Carl.
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  #10  
Old 10-15-2007, 01:37 PM
davidlong14 davidlong14 is offline
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Default Re: Jail for colluders?

...hard to prove
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