KJo vs. preflop 3 bettor

beanwater · #1 09-13-2007, 02:18 PM

villain is 16/8.6/4

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) Hand History converter Courtesy of PokerZion.com

Preflop: Hero is MP with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.25 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 7.25 BB
this fold OK? normally i call here, but im trying to stop calling down everytime i have a pair even though it looks like im beat.

thepizzlefosho · #2 09-13-2007, 02:19 PM

if you are going to fold the river then just go ahead and fold the turn. And I think a turn fold is probably ok against this guy.

I raise the flop a lot here.

mattnxtc · #3 09-13-2007, 02:38 PM

I woudl think you would want to raise the flop here.

If he 3bets is it an easy fold on the flop?

danzasmack · #4 09-13-2007, 02:41 PM

Post deleted by danzasmack

detruncate · #5 09-13-2007, 02:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
if you are going to fold the river then just go ahead and fold the turn. And I think a turn fold is probably ok against this guy.

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He's probably firing his whole range on the turn, but might give up on the river after we call an A-high board. We also get to suck out sometimes. So I don't mind this line absent a better read.

[ QUOTE ]
I raise the flop a lot here.

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I'm undecided. With lots of possible underpairs and only one possible overcard on a dry board + a Villain who seems to fold a lot, I don't have a problem with just calling in position -- that AF is maniacal if he hasn't folded a ton, but maybe he's a hard core nut peddler if the sample size isn't way too small to tell us much (which is what I suspect). If he has seemed to be showdown bound the few times he has entered a pot I'm ok with a raise... though I'm less than thrilled when we're 3-bet given that we have to at least entertain the idea that we're ahead if Villain is anywhere near as aggressive as he seems.

thepizzlefosho · #6 09-13-2007, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
the sick thing is, at these stakes, say the flop is 742 and you bet/call. The turn is a 2 and you c/c. The river is a K. You checl. I would say you win this pot more when they check than when they bet.

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you realize that the 3-bettor was out of the BB? or are you trying to make the commentary from the 3-bettor's perspective. Because I'm not really sure I follow your point.

danzasmack · #7 09-13-2007, 02:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
the sick thing is, at these stakes, say the flop is 742 and you bet/call. The turn is a 2 and you c/c. The river is a K. You checl. I would say you win this pot more when they check than when they bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

you realize that the 3-bettor was out of the BB? or are you trying to make the commentary from the 3-bettor's perspective. Because I'm not really sure I follow your point.

[/ QUOTE ]

wrong thread that's why lol. my bad. this is why i took tomorrow off work.

Gurravasa · #8 09-13-2007, 02:48 PM

I think your flopline is ok against this guy. How agressive is a very tight player with AF 4? How much does the fact that he only plays very strong hands affect his AF? I think turn call is marginal but when he fires again on turn and you don't improve it's an easy fold.

strategery · #9 09-13-2007, 02:51 PM

I'd just call down from the flop. When villain is behind, he's drawing to 2-3 outs and we can usually count on him to keep betting his worse hand based on that AF, but if we raise it gives him an opportunity to fold or to charge us more when we're drawing pretty thin. If he plays this way with 88-QQ this is an incredibly easy calldown.

thepizzlefosho · #10 09-13-2007, 02:53 PM

guys with AF of 4 don't ever check the river when they 3-bet the pf and bet the flop and turn. He is firing again with his entire range on the river. If you think you are beat on the turn you can fold it right there as you aren't getting the right odds to draw at a 5 outer even if you get a turn bet and a river raise in. Also you can't be sure you have a full 5 outs on the turn.

I'm not saying that a calling the turn is horrible, but if you call the turn you should probably call the river. I think that a turn fold is best though.