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#31
10-20-2007, 12:29 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
Again, I just don't understand why you HAVE to make money.
You should be happy to have a backer in the first place, something many of us do not have. Why do you HAVE to get 1st? What is wrong with getting a FT and just paying something back? Any FT is a helluva lot better than another $300 in the hole. Playing with the attitude that you have to win is great, sure, but you should not go in there saying "Meh, I dont really care anyway, 1st or nothing". You have to play poker one step at a time and stop trying to jump to the FT, HU for 1st. 
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#32
10-20-2007, 12:34 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Clearly you aren't understanding the situation. Do you not see that it would be incredibly demoralizing to play in a tournament knowing you see no cash unless you win? Do you not see how this will affect my play? [/ QUOTE ] No, I think he understands it clearly. I think your mind is a little warped because having this mindset makes you a pretty poor investment imo. Part of making profit means eliminating makeup, and if that means playing tournaments where if you finish third you still make no money, then so what. You're just that closer to making money of your own. This reverse martingale mindset of yours is hazardous imo. Just work the grind, and play until the makeup is erased. 300 dollar tournaments, 1k tournaments, the nightly $162, whatever. [/ QUOTE ] I understand the grind, I mean I do it day to day for myself. The thing that's bothering me about this I think is the disproportion between the buy-ins I'm looking to play here ($300-500) and the buy-ins/prize-pools that were played to get this make-up in the first place. Since the staking deal was made for "bigger" buy-ins that I couldn't afford, naturally the make-up is going to be bigger. I think I've played 1 live $300 tournament under him at the very beginning of the summer (1st tournament played just as a warm-up for WSOP). We never really discussed at the time the chances of me playing tournaments like these going forward. Also, over the past 12 months (prior to this summer though, before he staked me in anything) I bought myself into several $500-$1k events at Circuit events and at PCA pre-lims. Is it "fair" to me to not let me buy parts of myself back? I mean I don't know what's fair when dealing with such a high-variance game. I could very easily have a huge score online on my own roll - I'd feel really bad about my backer not getting a cut since he's put money up for me, is that fair?
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#33
10-20-2007, 12:37 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
Again, I just don't understand why you HAVE to make money. You should be happy to have a backer in the first place, something many of us do not have. Why do you HAVE to get 1st? What is wrong with getting a FT and just paying something back? Any FT is a helluva lot better than another $300 in the hole. Playing with the attitude that you have to win is great, sure, but you should not go in there saying "Meh, I dont really care anyway, 1st or nothing". You have to play poker one step at a time and stop trying to jump to the FT, HU for 1st. [/ QUOTE ] Because I have to drive 6 hours, pay for a hotel, etc. etc. to go play in these. I also can't play online if I'm playing live, both these things "cost" me time money, not him. I'm grateful to have someone backing me, trust me. Maybe the solution is to just not play these if I don't think it's worth it.
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#35
10-20-2007, 02:04 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
Because I have to drive 6 hours, pay for a hotel, etc. etc. to go play in these. I also can't play online if I'm playing live, both these things "cost" me time money, not him. [/ QUOTE ] Obviously it's costing him money if you have make-up. Sorry, but saying that it costs you time and money and you get nothing out of it and he does nothing is just plain ignorance. The only person you can blame for being in make-up is yourself. Maybe you're just not fit for live high buy in poker, especially if you're going to have an attitude that you can't seem to change.
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#36
10-20-2007, 02:21 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] . If I'm down $15k (I think that's about what I'm in make-up, mostly from the ME), why would I want to play a $300 tournament where 2nd place isn't even $20k? [/ QUOTE ] Huh? Based on your OP, I figured makeup was much higher...in this case, any $300 or $500 prizepool should offer plenty of incentive to scratch that makeup figure out. [/ QUOTE ] this thread is very lol. i also figured you were down at least 100k the way you were talking. lol at you getting stressed out with makeup in the 15k range. wtf, how is that going to make you change your game? lol. dude, play $300s and heck play $50s, lol.
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#37
10-20-2007, 02:33 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
Again I'm not "stressing" over $15k in make-up, that's not the point. The amount of make-up isn't really an issue here, the issue is the size of the live tournaments I would like to play. Since we never had any kind of agreement on what exactly I'm being staked in (again this was originally just a for-the-summer deal) it brings up these issues - I guess the lesson to be learned is have all terms of length of the deal, etc. clear ahead of time.
The point is there's a point where it's obviously much more beneficial to me to play under my own roll than be staked if I'm only playing in $300 or whatever of buy-ins in a day. That's my point the entire time, and maybe I'm being a bad stakee, but if I'm getting a certain % of wins and I'm only playing in a $300 buy-in live, or I can play in more where I get 100% of myself (albeit with risk) then I'm making more by playing online by myself. The reason I'm staked in the first place is to play high buy-in events so (obviously) I can hope to make more. But where is the cut-off on what I'm staked? W/e, sorry I brought it up, I guess it boils down to I don't know where the cut-off on where I'm staked is because we didn't have clearly defined rules setup ahead of time. Can I play a $100 live? I don't know. I mean I play $215s online, etc. on my own, can I play a $215 live? Well why not a $300? I don't know. As I said I'm just trying to figure out what's "fair" in these situations. I don't think it's fair for him to pay for $1k+ buy-ins and shoulder all that risk and then I go pay for smaller ones and say I run hot there and win, well then that's really [censored] for him obviously.
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#38
10-20-2007, 02:34 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
I also have a backer for live events. But we have a deal that I'm playing all <$500 buy-ins with my own money. And I'm backed for all $500+ events.
May be this is also a solution in this case, if your backer agrees. Though I will definitely play on the same level even if all the winnings go to him in some tournament...
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#39
10-20-2007, 02:37 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
I also have a backer for live events. But we have a deal that I'm playing all <$500 buy-ins with my own money. And I'm backed for all $500+ events. May be this is also a solution in this case, if your backer agrees. Though I will definitely play on the same level even if all the winnings go to him in some tournament... [/ QUOTE ] Although I agree with much of what's been said, instead of taking shots at you I'm going to try to offer a suggestion. I think a lot of this comes from the fact that you didn't hammer out specifics in the staking agreement, and now you're not sure exactly what your responsibilities are. My suggestion would be to get together with your backer and decide what he wants you to play and what you're comfortable playing, and then you don't have to worry about whether you "should" be playing this or that and feeling guilty or whatnot. Making things very clear benefits everyone and doesn't leave you feeling bad for not playing this tourney or having to play that tourney. Once you hammer things out, then you can go play on the side with your own roll and not feel bad about whatever happens, and also not feel obligated to go play tourneys that you'd rather not play.
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#40
10-20-2007, 02:42 AM
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Re: Staking/Make-up question: What to do with lower prize-pools?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I also have a backer for live events. But we have a deal that I'm playing all <$500 buy-ins with my own money. And I'm backed for all $500+ events. May be this is also a solution in this case, if your backer agrees. Though I will definitely play on the same level even if all the winnings go to him in some tournament... [/ QUOTE ] Although I agree with much of what's been said, instead of taking shots at you I'm going to try to offer a suggestion. I think a lot of this comes from the fact that you didn't hammer out specifics in the staking agreement, and now you're not sure exactly what your responsibilities are. My suggestion would be to get together with your backer and decide what he wants you to play and what you're comfortable playing, and then you don't have to worry about whether you "should" be playing this or that and feeling guilty or whatnot. Making things very clear benefits everyone and doesn't leave you feeling bad for not playing this tourney or having to play that tourney. Once you hammer things out, then you can go play on the side with your own roll and not feel bad about whatever happens, and also not feel obligated to go play tourneys that you'd rather not play. [/ QUOTE ] Thank you, and I guess this is the gist of what I was getting at from the start because it really brings up situations when you don't have clearly defined what the terms are.
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