3/6 Razz confusion - help!

[Praxising]

This was my first time at this level and, of course, I was real nervous, but I raised 3rd like a good little 2+2er - but then, I should have raised 4th? Should I have bet 5th? Could I have gotten him off this with more aggressive play? Checking the river was ok? Not?


Razz ($3/$6), Ante $0.25, Bring-In $1 (converter)

3rd Street - (0.58 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___raises
Seat 5: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 7: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___calls___calls

4th Street - (2.92 SB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___bets

5th Street - (2.46 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks

6th Street - (2.46 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___checks___calls
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets

River - (4.46 BB)

Hero: 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___checks
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] xx___checks

Total pot: (4.46 BB)


*** SUMMARY ***
<font color="white">
Total pot $26.75 | Rake $1
Seat 1: folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 3: folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 4: showed [6h 3d Ac 9d Ks 7d Jc] and won ($25.75) with Lo: 9,7,6,3,A
Seat 5: folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 6: folded on the 3rd Street
Seat 7: folded on the 3rd Street (didn't bet)
Seat 8: mucked [7s 6d 8c 7c 8d 5h Jh] </font>

[RustyBrooks]

Raising 4th is kinda crazy.

He does not appear to like his hand on 5th but you don't know that until he checks behind. Now I'm starting to wonder if he has like a 9 down or something.

6th... even though I think you have the best hand I don't think he'll fold here.

A bet on 7th might have worked. Really pretty hard to tell.

[Praxising]

Rusty, if he'd bet the river, would you have called?

[RustyBrooks]

I find his check on 5th very suspicious, and his bet on 6th. Against most opponents I would be pretty surprised if they really had an 8 on 6th. I guess some more timid people would bet 4th hoping you'd fold, then check 5th and wait to see if they actually make a hand before betting.

If he bet the river that's really a tough spot, I think. The pot is relatively small and even given my thoughts regarding him not having an 8 on 6th, he could have one now. I think I'd probably call though.

I actually just looked at his hand for the first time. That's hilarious.

[hagbard celine]

[ QUOTE ]
Raising 4th is kinda crazy.

He does not appear to like his hand on 5th but you don't know that until he checks behind. Now I'm starting to wonder if he has like a 9 down or something.

6th... even though I think you have the best hand I don't think he'll fold here.

A bet on 7th might have worked. Really pretty hard to tell.

[/ QUOTE ]

Forgive me if my response sounds naive.

If we have the best hand on 6th, why is it that we want Villain to fold? I can understand checking because our hand is weak, but if we're betting with the best hand, don't we want a call?

And then 7th, when you say that you're not sure a bet will work, is it because our river bet is a bluff, a "we're only going to get called by hands that beat us" type thing?

[RustyBrooks]

My response was basically answering the question about would playing this hand more aggressively have changed the outcome. If I don't think he'll fold 6th, then betting doesn't change the outcome, just how much you win or lose. I think we're either a little ahead or a little behind here. I'm actually kind of ambivalent about whether to check or bet.

And 7th, right, he'll always call or raise with an 8 or better. It doesn't seem likely that he has worse than a 9 in the hole, so either he's got no hand (pairs), a 98, or he's got us beat. If there's only one hand I can think of where my opponent will call and lose, I don't think I want to bet. And actually bluffing makes no sense because I don't think there are any hands at all that beat us that will fold.

[Andy B]

I don't see anything that I'd even consider doing differently.