Pm received by a few of us. Not sure what to think.

[private joker]

Although it seems most people are happy with the current ATF, and despite the fact that more fora are not necessarily what we need, it might be a good idea to have another place that was strictly SRS BIZ for the site. Maybe not, maybe mod discussion is that place. All I'm saying is I used to read ATF in the first month of its existence when it was all useful info, and now I hardly ever visit.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Although it seems most people are happy with the current ATF, and despite the fact that more fora are not necessarily what we need, it might be a good idea to have another place that was strictly SRS BIZ for the site. Maybe not, maybe mod discussion is that place. All I'm saying is I used to read ATF in the first month of its existence when it was all useful info, and now I hardly ever visit.

[/ QUOTE ]

exactly.

[entertainme]

[ QUOTE ]

however, if mat wants an ATF where users post serious questions expecting serious answers, i am offering to help 2+2 provide that. (i'm speaking as durron the moderator now). that's why i thought having an ATF4L wouldn't be a bad idea - ATF for srs biz and ATF for people who want to post about 2+2 but also want a more relaxed and entertaining environment to do so

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see why we can't achieve both; answers to serious questions and the casual atmosphere.

To be honest, I've really enjoyed ATF in the last week. It's been completely entertaining. Yet, I also see the need to give posters with questions serious replies.

So, answer the question, then let the silliness run wild, (hopefully without personal attacks on the OP - regulars have enough venom to beat up on each other anyway.) Starting a ABT4L seems unnecessary.

[ QUOTE ]
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this doesn't particularly bother me (i can dish it out much better than the chumps in ATF anyway). if this site ever made a major move to say 'mods can't be mean like regular posters,' i would respond by saying that mods and admins should do more to defend each other from unreasonable attack if they want that to be realistic. and if that was a direction the site wanted to go i would fall in line with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

fwiw, I would fully be in favor of this.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm in agreement with this also.

[deacsoft]

[ QUOTE ]
To be fair, I'm not sure that the Books & Publications forum is another BBV4L ready to break out were it not for your leading by example. It's probably only slightly more chaotic than the Golf forum.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is also true. Though I don't credit myself with it being a good forum. I credit the quality of the members that post there. I have to do very little to keep it in line. All I'm saying is that I believe the "polices" I have in place there, and the way I conduct myself on these forums is in a way that reflects positively on 2+2. If looking for a new direction to take I have some things that have worked well for me. I may be able to provide some helpful ideas.

[tuq]

So I slowplayed a flopped nut straight and let a guy backdoor a nut flush on me tonight in our home game (to be fair, I did push on the turn but I was shortstacked so he had odds to call), so here I am, first out of the donkament.

durron,

"i am offering mat a choice. if he likes the casual atmosphere there and doesn't want a major change he will say no, and i am ok with that."

He totally likes the atmosphere and has said so many times. The current semi-carnival ATF atmosphere has existed certainly for most of this year, possibly for some of last year. If Mat objected to it certainly he would have taken action by now (this aside from the comments where he says that he likes to be entertained by that forum). If I thought my posts in that forum were annoying or created extra work for Mike Haven or Mat I wouldn't make them. As it stands it's morphed into one of the smartest, most enjoyable of the 2+2 forums, as bizarre as that may seem.

Anyway, I do think NT!'s whole googletarding thing is a bit much. I wish we would stop losing sight of 2+2 as a community. When chesspain or another respected poster posts about where to go and what to do in a certain city, he's relying on the community's knowledge to help him out. It's the community that brings people back to this site; I doubt this whole "googletarding" stuff does nearly to the same extent.

Also, this whole "post it in the Travel forum" thing is crap. Very few people go there. If you're looking for certain ideas on how to handle certain issues in certain countries then I guess it's fine, but if your thing is "having dinner tonight in NYC, suggestions?" then the five people that read that forum won't help you out nearly as quickly as the 160 average readers that are on OOT will.

[NT!]

[ QUOTE ]

Anyway, I do think NT!'s whole googletarding thing is a bit much. I wish we would stop losing sight of 2+2 as a community. When chesspain or another respected poster posts about where to go and what to do in a certain city, he's relying on the community's knowledge to help him out. It's the community that brings people back to this site; I doubt this whole "googletarding" stuff does nearly to the same extent.

Also, this whole "post it in the Travel forum" thing is crap. Very few people go there. If you're looking for certain ideas on how to handle certain issues in certain countries then I guess it's fine, but if your thing is "having dinner tonight in NYC, suggestions?" then the five people that read that forum won't help you out nearly as quickly as the 160 average readers that are on OOT will.


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if chesspain ever posted in OOT other than to nit up the occasional thread i might be worried about keeping him coming back.

it's not that you're not allowed to make posts looking for advice or asking for help. i have let many such threads live in the last month. there are explicit instructions in the sticky about how to do it. it involves doing some of the legwork yourself and at least trying to ask a question that others will be interested in.

this is a topic which i have taken the time to address in great detail in the sticky, which apparently tuq didn't bother to read either. i am not hearing any outcry from OOT posters over googletarding - i am hearing it from people who wander into the forum having never posted there, and i am hearing it from mods who have nothing better to do than complain.

i don't even lock every OOT thread that involves googletarding. it involves discretion and judgment like everything else.

EDIT: and sending people to the travel forum was not my idea, i always said nobody posts there. i was asked to help give the smaller forums a chance to thrive by redirecting traffic there, and i have. so blame that one on all the loudmouth busybodies who tried to tell me how to run OOT last time around.

[Eurotrash]

[ QUOTE ]
Although it seems most people are happy with the current ATF, and despite the fact that more fora are not necessarily what we need, it might be a good idea to have another place that was strictly SRS BIZ for the site. Maybe not, maybe mod discussion is that place. All I'm saying is I used to read ATF in the first month of its existence when it was all useful info, and now I hardly ever visit.

[/ QUOTE ]


that's kind of a shame. it's been really good lately!


also,

[ QUOTE ]
Loc: north american scum

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are you supposed to be my nemesis from the western hemisphere?

[Eurotrash]

[ QUOTE ]
deac,

To be fair, I'm not sure that the Books & Publications forum is another BBV4L ready to break out were it not for your leading by example. It's probably only slightly more chaotic than the Golf forum.

[/ QUOTE ]


I try to make it chaotic as possible, but there's only so much I can do, mang.

[tuq]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a topic which i have taken the time to address in great detail in the sticky, which apparently tuq didn't bother to read either.

[/ QUOTE ]
Wrong, I even cruised through the (sadly MS Paint-free) update this week.

I just think the best forums are those in which people congregate and consider it a community. While there is definitely something that can be called "googletarding", I hardly think a long-time respected poster asking a busy forum about restaurant recommendations or whatever chesspain did fits the mold. And yes, I realize your "job" is harder than most of ours, save possibly the BBV4L crew. It shouldn't mean it's immune to discussion.

[NT!]

tuq,

this is by no means something that is beyond discussion.

however, this particular issue has been discussed many, many times, and the consensus among OOT regulars and mods is that if people want to come to OOT for help, they need to at least meet us halfway. especially when, as i said, there are many existing threads on this topic, there is a whole forum where people are instructed to post on this topic, and there is a long thread about NYC eateries in another forum as well.

sorry but this is something where there is broad agreement among OOT posters and mods. it's been discussed ad nauseum. it's pretty ridiculous that it keeps coming up over and over again when it has been made very clear that there are both ways for people to get around this issue, and also alternate venues where such questions can be posed.