.25/.50 LO8 I'm horrible at playing Aces.

[sfgiants]

Villain just sat down.

Pokerstars
Limit Omaha Hi/Lo Ring game
Limit: $0.25/$0.5
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is UTG with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">Hero raises</font>, UTG+1 calls, 6 folds, BB calls.

Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.4SB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, BB folds.

Turn: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4.2BB, 2 players)
<font color="#cc0000">Hero bets</font>, UTG+1 calls.

River: 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.2BB, 2 players)
Hero ???

Would you...
Bet/fold?
Bet/call?
Check/call?
Check/fold?

Any thoughts welcome!

[bizzym00]

bet/fold

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6.4SB, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, UTG+1 calls, BB folds.

[/ QUOTE ]Giant Fan - What do you think UTG+1 has here, to call a pre-flop raise and then call this post flop bet? I could give you my ideas of what I would think various opponents might be holding. It's sort of different for each opponent. I realize that makes it difficult, but I think that's the approach you want to take.

First think of two card holdings that UTG+1 might best be holding to continue after this flop. Then go back one step to think about whether that jibes somehow with calling a double bet on the flop. (Or would UTG+1 always or often call a double bet on the flop and then also call a bet after this specific flop). You have to make those determinations and decisions on your own.

Alas, the lower you go in limits, the harder it generally is, I think, to put your opponent on cards. For starters, think about what two card combinations you'd most like to have after this flop.

Then after the flop, you re-evaluate your thinking after the turn, and then again after the river.

Specifically, after this flop I'd like<ul type="square">1. KKXY (a pair of kings)
2. AcXcYnZn (the nut flush draw)
3. a wrap around straight draw plus a couple of clubs,
4. something like KnQcJcTn[/list]Do you think your opponent has one of these hands? Without one, continuing might be scary for your opponent.

I like your continuation bet after this flop, but a pair of aces would be way down on my list of preferred two-card combinations after this flop, down below a set of tens and various fragments of hands already mentioned.

Then after the turn, I'd like AQXY, preferably with two clubs, or maybe with a card that paired a card on the board (mainly to possibly cut down on the outs of an opponent holding a set or two pairs).

Betting is touchier after the turn, because now you are weak relative to what your opponent might well be holding. For example, your opponent might have a straight, but not necessarily the nut straight. Is there any way this particular opponent might fold a non-nut straight or something worse (maybe two pairs or less) if you bet the turn? (I don't know the answer; it depends on your opponent). At this point, if your opponent was foolishly drawing for a back-door low after the flop, he might fold, but if not, you very well could be betting into a superior hand. But might he fold it if you bet into him? (I don't know, but I would be thinking along those lines).

Then on the river, all anybody needs is a queen and one of the board cards to beat you, or a queen and an ace, or a queen and an eight, or an eight and a seven, or two pairs. But will your opponent give up with one of these and allow you to steal the pot on the river? Again, I don't know. It depends on your opponent.

In my games, I'd usually not raise from early position with aces, because there usually are some pretty shrewd card readers who would put me probably on aces for that pre-flop raise, and then they'd play accordingly later in the hand, as though they were peeking at my pair of aces. But I'd raise from UTG some of the time with aces, depending on the circumstances, and to mix up my play (which is probably more important in my games than in your 25/50 game).

In any event, I'd usually bet this flop with the aces, even though I lacked a very good flop fit. But then when called I'd generally back off, suspecting my opponent had a better flop fit than I did. I wouldn't always do that, but I usually would.

Hope this gives you an idea or two.

Buzz

[sfgiants]

Great post, Buzz. I think I was pretty much on autopilot with the Aces. Auto-bet flop, auto-bet turn. Definitely not good. I'll definitely try to incorporate more of the thought processes you outlined in your post for the future.

[templar999]

I know it's not part of your question, but I think this precise hand UTG, with double suited aces and a bad low, is a good opportunity for you to re-examine some of the reasons you would raise preflop in this game.

As played, I'd check fold. It'd be tough for him this spot with a hand you can beat. He might even check behind a non-nut straight. If you have a good read and have courage that I completely lack, you could consider a check-raise bluff this river. It'll cost you two big bets if it fails, but if your opponents are paying attention, you should get it back pretty easily.

[RobNottsUk]

Having played the 25c/50c level I think the pre-flop raise actually got a good result, narrowing the field to only 2 opponents. On the flop, a loose UTG+1 might easily be calling on a b'door Lo draw, a flush draw or even a single pair hand. Those guys tend not to find it 'scary to continue' without the quality hands Buzz would like to hold. They optmistically see that A2/A3 doesn't have a Lo draw and/or call to hope to improve.

Therefore, I think there's enough bets in the pot to make firing again on turn profitable frequently at this level. You're not going persuade this type of player to fold a poor made str8, or 2 pair but you may make a hand with a pair T's fold, which would go on to outdraw you on the river, or bluff you out if you show weakness by checking.

On the river, it is somewhat opponent specific. Checking to invite a bluff from busted flush draw, makes sense, betting rarely so, as most of the opponents would look a pf raiser up with 2 pair, and I wouldn't be surprised to see 'surprise' trash hands like 2487 turned over frequently on the river by many players unable to resist drawing to non-nut gutshots. Some players however do call with just one pair (sometimes worse) to keep you honest, yet wouldn't raise without nut hand (making bet/fold less expensive than against more aggressive opponents), nor bluff weaker hands frequently enough to make check/call bluff inducement clearly attractive.

[sfgiants]

Thanks for the post, templar. You're right that I should probably put more thought into whether or not I preflop raise. This might be a good spot for a limp, depending on table conditions.

Rob - thanks for sharing your thoughts. You're right that the .25/.50 players could very well continue with a poor flop fit (this happens often). All the same, I am building up towards moving to the higher games, so I am also spending time analyzing my thought processes. Your analysis on the turn and river is very helpful - thanks for that.