tilt explained (by neuroscience)

[rory]

I think there are a few mistakes in your post.

First, the amygdala is part of the limbic system, they aren't separate.

Second, the limbic system isn't what separates us from dogs. Go and whack your dog on the nose with the newspaper and you will see the limbic system in action as it runs away or cowers. The limbic system does not control 'conscious thought'-- that is the prefrontal cortex. The limbic system comprises basic parts of the brain of all vertebrates. The limbic system on the whole is generally involved in the emotional response to stimuli.

Third, the amygdala is generally thought of as being involved in behaviours such as fear conditioning. It does not really control things like breathing and what not.

Anyway, your sentiment is right. What happens is you are going along playing poker and a sickening river card comes off and your opponent makes a bet. Or you take a bad beat. You react to that stimulus as if it was threatening to you, activating your "fight or flight" response. This response occurs when the amygdala, which is part of the limbic system, activates the hypothalamus which in turn dumps a bunch of hormones into your bloodstream, preparing you to fight or run away. Your heart rate increases, your breathing rate increases when this happens.

So it's not all or nothing. A really major bad thing happens and a lot of hormones will be released. Something slightly bad maybe nothing or a little bit is released. But the hormones in your blood don't automatically go away the second the next hand is dealt. They stick around for at least 15 minutes to half an hour after they are released. It is physically impossible for anybody to be completely "calm" after the hormones are released. They have to wait until the hormones are naturally flushed from the blood.

If you have a minor response and keep playing, your response to the next bad beat will be more severe. This happens because new hormones are released into your bloodstream and add to the hormones that were already there. Eventually you will reach the tipping point and be unable to control yourself and make reactions in an emotional state.

So what is the cure? The first is to know that if you do feel that rush that if you then tell yourself you are okay to keep playing, you are lying to yourself because it is impossible. You also know that anybody you see who gets flushed at a bad beat cannot possibly be playing non-emotionally the next hand. Or even for the next half an hour or so.

The way to stop it is the way you deal with any fear or adverse stimulus. You keep exposing yourself to it over and over, and watch yourself have the flight or fight reaction and see it for what it is. Eventually you will notice that you thought you were going to have the reaction, and you did not have it. And those times where you notice no reaction will become more and more frequent. It will never go away completely.

In the mean time if you feel that rgghthrrrgh rush, you now know the only way you can possibly play calmly is to not play for the next half an hour, let the hormones flush out of your system and then come back reset.

I think a lot of people have really bad problems with tilt because they get in a cycle and wind up being half on tilt before they even start playing. Let's say you take a bunch of bad beats one session, keep playing, play bad, lose more money and then finally force yourself to quit. The next session, you might view playing poker in and of itself as a threat. Like "I'm going to get these guys this time.".. well that's a little bit of the fight response. So their fuse is even shorter than usual. If you complain about bad beats or how bad you run and all of that this is what you are doing. You have taken playing poker and turned it into a negative stimulus so even when you start playing you are geared up to tilt. If that is true for you you have to go all of the way back to the beginning and not play until you view poker in a neutral fashion again. At any rate, when you notice yourself having that rush you should quit playing immediately and give yourself half an hour to let those hormones flush out of your bloodstream.

[bkholdem]

Any thoughts on using Modafinil for alertness or long sessions?

[svenson]

yeah I've looked into that (provigil), but havn't tried it.

[bkholdem]

[ QUOTE ]
yeah I've looked into that (provigil), but havn't tried it.

[/ QUOTE ]

A psychiatrist that consults for the company I work for said that it was going to be big in the future, used a lot as a feel better type drug.

[Piemaster]

[ QUOTE ]
the best way to control tilt is playing only a few tables, being well rested, in shape, a good diet, and a good social life. Nothing good comes cheap.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is that just from dial-a-cliche, or do you have some evidence to back it up?

[svenson]

yeah, I do. But it is also common sense, which I don't need to argue.

[Clean Slater]

Hello there.
I`m a new member and I like to start my post count by commenting in this thread.
Don`t mind the spelling and grammar mistakes please , English is not my native language.

I`ve never studied psychology or even read a psychology book so the little knowledge I have on the subject comes from articles and TV.
I `m familiar with the subject discussed in this thread but I don`t think that tilt is a result of the process that is explained here.
What we talk about here is the most primitive biological process that happens to our body when we feel threatened just like every animal on this planet.
And this feeling of danger or being threatened is simply...fear.
It`s the fear that sparks the process.
It starts with chills ( body temperature drops ) to prepare the body for extreme physical labor and adrenaline starts flowing to give you the energy boost for this labor.
Now you are prepared to fight or run for your life.
What this process has to do with Tilt ?

Strangely enough I almost never tilt in poker rooms but online it does not take much to tilt me up.
I don`t feel "threatened" or any fear when i tilt.
I play in my BR limit and few bad beats are hardly going to bankrupt me .
The tilt I`m feeling is actually an anger. I`m angry and I want revenge...right now.
It is a combination of an urge to hurt the dude back in any way I can and an urge to get my chips back fast.
Most usual reaction is to start playing recklessly or move up in stakes for a quick double-up.
Thats tilt.

So... isn`t this more of an anger management and ego issue ?
And if it is , doesn`t this come from some other part of the brain then the most primitive part that almost every living creature has since the beginning of time ?
Does any of the psychology students wants to comment on this ?

[svenson]

I barely understood what you said, but I think you understood me even less. When you go into fight or flight mode, your decisions are no longer being made in the spot you are used to makeing your decisions. They are now made in the amygdala, which is not a good place to be making rational decisions.

[FatalError]

rory does crazy [censored] with rats brains and stuff so i believe what ever he says

[svenson]

yeah, as I'm reading more and more, I'm realizing a lot of the terminology of my original post is wrong. The main idea is right though.