Step 4: Whats your shoving range?

[timex]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Hero (t3520)
SB (t2360)
BB (t3675)
UTG (t3945)

Preflop: Hero is Button with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t3520</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t3320.

Flop: (t7140) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Turn: (t7140) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

River: (t7140) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>

Final Pot: t7140

BB is bigjoe, payouts are 700,700,215,82

Is this a +EV shove, what is the worst hand I can shove profitably?

[Gaborsisters]

With 17 BB I can't see shoving here with KJo.

[SteveM]

I'm really curious to see the replies here. I can't picture myself shoving anything here. A shove seems to say "please don't call" in this spot, doesn't it? Were there some weird table dynamics going on? You have a healthy stack, you're one of the best players there, there's plenty of time left, top 2 prizes are the same, and there's only 300 in blinds out there. Why not raise 500 or so? I'd actually RR shove (under the right conditions) with a hand like that more often than I'd open shove. At least you pick up a bigger pot if you're feeling frisky and have a decent read. But you are much better than I am and I'm curious why open shoving is the only option you're considering here. I know I am missing something - what is it? Thanks!

[diditmyway]

17BB i shove AK, nothing else.

[eurythmech]

Are people who answerred aware of the pay-out structure?

[JasonP530]

I'm having similar troubles with decent stacks, low blinds and the flat payout. It seems like raising all is overdoing it, but if you raise, anyone can shove and you cant really call. In fact, I am not sure you should be calling with semipremium hands if someone shoves(AQ/AK/JJ).


-Jason

[Chipchucker5]

Are there antes yet, or no? If there are, I could see shoving being okay, but I don't love it. Maybe make 450 and fold to a shove, but I'm not sure because I'm not used to the payout structure.

[Uncle_Billy]

My initial reaction was that this push seemed kind of nutty. But given Timex's reputation, and given I'm been meaning to try to learn how to use SitNGo Wizard for the steps, I threw this scenario into the tool (changing blind and payout structures to match those of the steps, etc.)

Assuming I did it correctly, EqP% = 24.31%, while EqF% = 24.36%. So it's super super close, but a fold.

This assumes a default "avg player" for the SB (calling range = 66+, AT+, A9s+) &amp; BB (calling range = 88+, AQ+, ATs+).

When you change the ranges for both to "very tight", EqP% = 24.60%, while EqF% = 24.32: apparently making it a profitable play. Very tight for SB = 99+, AQ+, while very tight for BB = TT+, AQ+.

However, SNG Wiz recommends that the edge differential must be greater than 0.35 to make this move... In this case the delta is 0.28, so it says fold.

SNG Wiz identifies profitable push range (assuming "avg" opponents) as TT, AQ off, AQ suited, with the edge differential &gt; 0.35.

Interesting because I didn't think it'd be so close. I guess Timex has a computer in his head or something...

[actyper]

PokerStars Game #13184118950: Tournament #66900467, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VIII (200/400) - 2007/11/11 - 19:20:45 (ET) Table '66900467 1' 9-max Seat #7 is the button Seat 1: bigjoe2003 (4260 in chips) Seat 3: actyper (5115 in chips) Seat 7: Dapper Dan G (4125 in chips)
bigjoe2003: posts the ante 25
actyper: posts the ante 25
Dapper Dan G: posts the ante 25
bigjoe2003: posts small blind 200
actyper: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to actyper [Th Ah]
Dapper Dan G: folds
bigjoe2003: raises 3835 to 4235 and is all-in
actyper: calls 3835
*** FLOP *** [9s Qs 2d]
*** TURN *** [9s Qs 2d] [Kd]
*** RIVER *** [9s Qs 2d Kd] [8s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
bigjoe2003: shows [2h 7s] (a pair of Deuces)
actyper: shows [Th Ah] (high card Ace)
bigjoe2003 collected 8545 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 8545 | Rake 0
Board [9s Qs 2d Kd 8s]
Seat 1: bigjoe2003 (small blind) showed [2h 7s] and won (8545) with a pair of Deuces Seat 3: actyper (big blind) showed [Th Ah] and lost with high card Ace Seat 7: Dapper Dan G (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Pudge714]

Antes? This is bad without them. Guys reshoving ranges in SNGs are much tighter than they are are in mtts so you can just raise/fold here.