middle pair: don't wanna fold

[sh58]

Party Poker, $1/$2 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BTN: $271.70
SB: $199.80
BB: $200
UTG: $205.55
sh58 (MP): $203
CO: $377.45

Pre-Flop: 4 5 dealt to sh58 (MP)
UTG folds, <font color="red">sh58 raises to $8</font>, CO folds, BTN calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19) 2 7 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">sh58 bets $14</font>, <font color="red">BTN raises to $35</font>, <font color="red">sh58 raises to $100</font>

villan unknown TAG 20/15/2 (datamined hands, can't remember how many, probably 400 or something)

1st orbit at the table, a couple of tight players to my left, so i have been liberal with my opens, have opened Button, CO and now MP, i just knew one of the TAGs was gonna 3bet me or call my raise

i thought this was the sort of boards people love to playback at, but i had to bet to protect my hand and i'm OOP etc.

i was half expecting a raise, but he made such a gay raise i thought he was probably bluffing. didn't really like calling this OOP and didn't want to fold so i thought i had to turn my hand into a bluff (semibluff if he calls/bluff if he shoves).

what would you guys do, cos i don't like bet/3betting with marginal hands very much on these kind of boards, but i couldn't think of a better option.

[jordiepop]

going to war oop with middle pair is bad news, i dont think ur thoughts about being played back at on these types of boards and his "gay" raise warrant this 3 bet ... thats just me

[fingersmith]

just let these spots go. at one point, when i started opening up my game, i got to a point where i wanted to do stuff like this and never ever let myself get bluffed. but anything besides folding is just -EV. even if you're ahead of his flop raising range, you're crushed by his 3bet calling range, and the amount you lose when he calls/shoves is a lot more than the amount you make when he folds.

edit: i want to emphasize, though, how much i feel like doing this sometimes too

[sh58]

[ QUOTE ]
going to war oop with middle pair is bad news, i dont think ur thoughts about being played back at on these types of boards and his "gay" raise warrant this 3 bet ... thats just me

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that it isn't a great play, but you get away with more earlier in a session though, so if its gonna work, it's gonna work now

more importantly, what would you do in the situation?

[Paul Thomson]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
going to war oop with middle pair is bad news, i dont think ur thoughts about being played back at on these types of boards and his "gay" raise warrant this 3 bet ... thats just me

[/ QUOTE ]

i agree that it isn't a great play, but you get away with more earlier in a session though, so if its gonna work, it's gonna work now

more importantly, what would you do in the situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

fold. this flop hits his range pretty well.

[fingersmith]

i'd like to add that this becomes a little more reasonable (borderline still) if you know villain better

[Ranger_Trivette]

I do this too sometimes. With reads vs someone who bluffraises alot I like it.
But you really have to be right a lot of times to make it profitable.

[Paul Thomson]

sh58 --

quick question also...are u planning on calling if he pushes cause the odds will be close to draw to your 2pair. Point being is that I think u made this play harder on yourself instead of the villain.

[sightless]

spew imo
just fold
while he might not have a big hand, he might just be unwilling to fold it here

[sh58]

[ QUOTE ]
I do this too sometimes. With reads vs someone who bluffraises alot I like it.
But you really have to be right a lot of times to make it profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

we need him to fold 54% of the time to make a profit here (assuming he never calls the 3bet, only folds and shoves. if he calls we can sometimes improve, and shut down otherwise)