The rise of the fundamentalist right in America

[Blarg]

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Also, 'Under God' was put in the Pledge during the Eisenhower Administration as an affront to Communism. The founders acknowledged a Creator so I don't have a problem with God being mentioned as long as the government doesn't mandate church attendance or belief in said God.


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Article 19, section 1 of the Arkansas Constitution: Atheists disqualified from holding office or testifying as witness.
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any court.


I don't think a lot of people no this, but if you are an Atheists you cant run for office Arkansas and a few other states.So in essence the government of those states are mandating church attendance and a belief in a God.

I wonder how people who believe in god would act if the shoe was on the other foot and they were not allowed to run for office in a state unless they denied god.I imagine that it would not go over to well with the fundamentalist.

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I wish I were more surprised by this. But if true, it is merely the legislative embodiment of what is already clear -- neither Christians in general nor this supposedly free and unprejudiced nation are willing to live without prejudice, contempt, and the elimination of civil rights.

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blarg,

Prayers at the beginning of public meetings go back 230 years or so. I have not heard anyone consider the Founding Fathers as the Fundamentalist Right.


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Lots of terrible things go back forever. That might well be one of the best flags indicating terrible ideas. Human history is not a store of enlightenment, but of darkness. In America's early years, people were required to pay religious taxes whether they belonged to the community church or not, and not doing so would result in not only criminal prosecution but ostracization from the community, which was as good as death.

Thank goodness for those who held or still hold different and more humane ideas. It's precisely on their whipped, bloody, bowed and shunned backs that progress was possible.

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Also, 'Under God' was put in the Pledge during the Eisenhower Administration as an affront to Communism. The founders acknowledged a Creator so I don't have a problem with God being mentioned as long as the government doesn't mandate church attendance or belief in said God.


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This strikes me as truly awful and artful reasoning devoid of human empathy. It must be nice not to be the outcast or care about those who might be shunned, even if children. I could never get my conscience in that place, and if there were a God, I would pray with all my might that I never would.

[4_2_it]

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This strikes me as truly awful and artful reasoning devoid of human empathy. It must be nice not to be the outcast or care about those who might be shunned, even if children. I could never get my conscience in that place, and if there were a God, I would pray with all my might that I never would.

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So you can't refute my logic so you resort to the tried and true dabte tactic of attacking your opponent's character. Since I am apparently devoid of human emphany and lack your moral compass my statement has to horribly wrong? Sorry that my opinion doesn't count since it is at odds with yours. Wookie's religious views would tell him to turn the other cheek. My views tell me just to say good day sir.

[whiskeytown]

here is an article on Christian Fundamentalism in the military

and Blackwater is a paramilitary organization run by a secretive (or rather out of the spotlight, until recently) right wing fundamentalist named Erik Prince.

I would also point out there is a misnomer in the article in that I differentiate between Fundamentalism and Evangelical Christianity - Dominionism is a strain, which suggests Christians have the right and obligation to take over Civic and Governmental institutions and rewrite the laws to fit the Biblical Code.

I've been studying a bit recently on Dietrich Bonhoffer and the confessing church - (background - DB was a pastor who was an active member of the resistance of the Nazi Regime in WWII) - and many of the members that resisted the Nazi party did so under the belief that devotion to Christ superceeded devotion to one's citizenship or Military service. One can't read the Sermon on the Mount and take Jesus to heart and then go out and kill his fellow man.

On the other hand, a great many established churches stated Romans 13 should imply military service if called upon, but I doubt in retrospect they could argue God's will was done by serving the Nazi Party - but Hitler often invoked the almighty in his speeches and led many of them to believe he was also a good Christian.

rb

[Blarg]

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here is an article on Christian Fundamentalism in the military

and Blackwater is a paramilitary organization run by a secretive (or rather out of the spotlight, until recently) right wing fundamentalist named Erik Prince.

I would also point out there is a misnomer in the article in that I differentiate between Fundamentalism and Evangelical Christianity - Dominionism is a strain, which suggests Christians have the right and obligation to take over Civic and Governmental institutions and rewrite the laws to fit the Biblical Code.

I've been studying a bit recently on Dietrich Bonhoffer and the confessing church - (background - DB was a pastor who was an active member of the resistance of the Nazi Regime in WWII) - and many of the members that resisted the Nazi party did so under the belief that devotion to Christ superceeded devotion to one's citizenship or Military service. One can't read the Sermon on the Mount and take Jesus to heart and then go out and kill his fellow man.

On the other hand, a great many established churches stated Romans 13 should imply military service if called upon, but I doubt in retrospect they could argue God's will was done by serving the Nazi Party - but Hitler often invoked the almighty in his speeches and led many of them to believe he was also a good Christian.

rb

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Interestingly, there has been an ongoing and fairly ridiculous attempt to paint Hitler as anti-religious. This is contrary to the historical record, and an anti-relgious fascist would be unimaginable.

[katyseagull]

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Do you Americans worry much about the fundamentalist right? It is something of a concern here in Europe - and we mostly attribute its continuing growth as we perceive it with G.W.Bush - but given the shocking state of newspapers these days, it's almost impossible to fathom what's a genuine piece of cultural news, and what's hyped up for our European tastes.


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I'm so tired I can barely keep my eyes open but I really wanted to participate in this thread.


Diebitter,

I agree with daveT when he says "I think that the Fundamentalists, in the view of most Americans, are not respected." I don't think Americans worry all that much about the fundamentalist right. We are worrying about too many other things, mainly heating bills and filling up our cars. Most of the people I know don't give the fundamentalists a second thought.

I'm not even sure I know what is meant by fundamentalist. Do you mean people who take the bible literally, like who don't believe in teaching their children about evolution? I think these people are a small minority.

I know several bible-studying Christians who are devout, thoughtful people. While others might make fun of them I actually like them a lot. I think they're interesting to talk to and extremely kind. They aren't anything like that horrible video you linked. That is really weird stuff in that video. I hope to god that the Brits and Europeans aren't imagining all of us Americans like that. [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img] I've never seen anything like that video before and really don't think it is common at all. If that is what they are showing you folks in England and Europe then it's my belief you are being fed a lot of propaganda.


I believe our country is in a decline but I don't think it is the fault of any religious group. I think it's the fault of inept leadership, greed, short-sightedness on everyone's part, and yeah immorality. I suppose you could blame the fundamentalist right for helping to vote George Bush into office but really a lot of people voted him into office, not just fundamentalists.

[KilgoreTrout]

Grunching - I read the first dozen replies or so.

The similarities between the American Fundamentalist Right and fascism are obvious, both in principle and in deed. Over the past several months, there has been a concerted effort of the religious right to bombard media outlets with opinion pieces, commentaries, and letters to the editor painting religion (read: Christianity) as under siege.

They deride supporters of gay marriage as sodomites. They claim schools are marginalizing Christmas, restricting students' ability to pray or wear religious symbols on their persons. They paint the "liberal media" or "East-Coast Intellectuals" and the like as the great Satan. They try to force religion into public school curricula (see Dover, PA). They claim evolution is "just" a theory, despite the innumerable proofs it has sustained.

In short, the Fundamentalists are waging a battle for hearts and minds using classic fascist techniques. They claim the nation is in decline (liberal media, illegal immigrants, gun control, gay marriage, removal of the ten commandments from courthouses, etc.), and that they are victims (threats to "our way of life"). They use half-truths and outright propaganda to advance their agenda. They claim moral authority by virtue of dogma. They are threatened by reason. They make use of scapegoats (liberl media, atheists, gays, terrorists, Islamists, Zionists, whatever).

Where have we seen this before?

I'm not blessed with faith. I see religions as hegemonical systems promulgated by certain human beings to mollify others. Religion holds power over its adherents. Religious leaders likewise serve as lower-level hegemons. Though many, if not most religions foster charity, good will, and peaceful practices, there is always the other side of the coin - the threat of eternal punishment, of guilt, of sin.

Of course, I'm not differentiating between the political "Religious Right" and religious sects. The system of power and control used for political ends could very well be bastardizing real faith. Still, the movement does not seem to be on the decline, and its methods are frighteningly familiar.

[Brad1970]

Mr. Wookie, great post. Couldn't agree more.

FWIW, the religious right/fundalmentalist/religious people nametags that alot of you are throwing around is misleading...especially to those not familiar with it. This group in the US are predominately Christians (some may not act like it though). These generalized 'religious' terms could include Muslims, Buddists, Jews, etc. as well depending on your point of view.

[J.A.K.]

I switched(by choice)from public school to a small Christian school my sophomore year in HS. This school/church would definitely be considered fundamental/"legalistic". Culottes below the knees for girls, navy knit slacks and tie (square sock-tie FTW!) for the boys. No shorts anytime. I played JV/Varsity basketball and we had to wear sweatpants while playing...LOL! Hair must be a certain length, cheerleaders could not do legkicks...you get the point. The teachers actually lived this type of life 24/7 and it was taught as "the" way according to scripture.

Looking back, I realize how miserable those people were trying to constantly adhere to those misguided principles, especially the females. As for me, I was distracted enough by sports/girlfriends/friends -basic HS stuff- to not be overwhelmed by the rules. I still managed to have a blast during HS. I had a good "balance"/freedom in my home life in that my family did not adhere to the strictures of the school. I simply accepted them as a student.

Fundamentalists seem to think there is some stasis of rigorous piety that can be reached and that it can only be reached in the narrow confines of painting the world demonic. I have yet to meet a truly happy fundy. I imagine they approach some perverse happiness while spewing invectives. But for ones claiming to have a stranglehold on truth and the path to peace, this is hardly rewarding.

I worry less about the kook fringe in the video by OP, than the zeitgeist that will relegate the truths of scripture into obscurity. My school eventually ended- cracking up from the top down. Fundies would never be able to hold a consortium very long because they would always devolve into chaos from a myopic hyper-defensiveness or a who can out-Nit who regarding interpretation of scripture/creed. Rather, I fear moral relativism, nihilism, and iconoclasm will serve to suppress an invaluable source of guidance (if only as an alternative) and "first principles" for life.

Good thread. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[katyseagull]

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I worry less about the kook fringe in the video by OP, than the zeitgeist that will relegate the truths of scripture into obscurity. My school eventually ended- cracking up from the top down. Fundies would never be able to hold a consortium very long because they would always devolve into chaos from a myopic hyper-defensiveness or a who can out-Nit who regarding interpretation of scripture/creed. Rather, I fear moral relativism, nihilism, and iconoclasm will serve to suppress an invaluable source of guidance (if only as an alternative) and "first principles" for life.



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I agree with what you wrote, J.A.K. I never worried about the kook fringe because I think it is just that, a fringe. If the kook fringe became bigger then I'd be very concerned. I don't think these nuts are representative of Americans or Christians at all and hope that the rest of the world is not buying this propaganda but I fear that it is since Americans themselves are buying it.

However, to get back to what Whiskeytown wrote, I never realized that Blackwater was run by Fundamentalists. Good lord, now that is actually very troubling. I am a pacifist and don't feel Christians should be involved in wars (let alone murdering civilians). And a paramilitary? Wow. Ok now I am starting to feel unsettled by this. I really wonder if the U.S. is showing signs of becoming a fascist state. Yikes. I guess I am starting to get concerned about fundamentalists in America diebitter [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img].