Button steal hand leads to heated theory argument

[andyfox]

"I HATE taking any line that doesn't allow me to get to showdown with a hand that has value."

How do you define value? There are two ranks of overcards to the pocket 9s.

That said, a guy calls your bet on a K-K-2 flop, unless that guy is very bad or very good, you're in trouble. And if your friend is viewed as "goofy," his opponent is less likely to try to make a play on him than he would be on a less goofy opponent.

[Howard Beale]

I play it the way your roommate did, it's pretty much the default line, imo. To take a different line I think you've got to have a pretty good read on SB's play. There is another factor to consider in this case: SB called the flop bet with a player behind him with no way to know what that player would do. In a 3-way hand with the typical players the player who smooth calls in that situation has got the King. They have the King so often that I'd not mind if your roommate checked the turn but, still, I think b/f is the way to go.

[Nate.]

All--

Who else prefers 3-betting the turn to calling?

--Nate

[Anacardo]

[ QUOTE ]
All--

Who else prefers 3-betting the turn to calling?

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Sounds like the Slippery Laggro Slope, which is only a good path to go down against TAGs.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

Does no one else feel like the SB has the ability to CR the turn with any of the following hands:

Diamond flush draw

Spade Flush draw

Pocket pairs 3-8

10-J

A-10

A-J

and in some instances... total air.


I just feel like a tricky lose player (i.e. the small blind) is going to be willing to "make a move" on the turn to win the pot solely because it looks like my roomy is on a blatant button steal.

Furthermore... I disagree with what private joker said about the 30-60 game at HG not having a lot of turn check raising.

As a matter of fact... the 30-60 at HG seems to play a tad more aggressive than other mid-limit games I've played at the commerce.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

[ QUOTE ]
All--

Who else prefers 3-betting the turn to calling?

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

Is this so that you can comfortably fold to a 4th bet and/or get a check/ check scenario on the river? I'm a little lost on this line?

[joker122]

what is sb's cold calling range in the sb? can he have like Q9o/JTo?

[Lestat]

You're both right and it depends on the opponent.

99 is vulnerable and you don't want to give a free card if at all possible. On the other hand...

If check/raising the turn is such a standard play with almost any hand as you say, then I'd bet the turn to induce a c/r. If check/raising a worst hand is just a decent possibility, then I'd check behind (as you advocated) and pay off the river.

I'm certainly not gonna criticize your roommate's play. In many instances he would've played it perfectly. Or he might've done better to check, or call down. Depends on the player.

[Bicycles_Biatch]

[ QUOTE ]
what is sb's cold calling range in the sb? can he have like Q9o/JTo?

[/ QUOTE ]

His range (against a "stealer") is about 50% of the deck... had my buddy been in mid position... and the same action had gone down... I agree this is an easy bet / fold to raise.

However, due to his virtually required steal position ... I think the SB is willing to take a shot here with a crazy range.

[Hielko]

I would almost never fold this. It's a blind battle, you have a pair and there are a lot of (semi)bluffing hands he can have. I would only bet/fold here if villain is very passive.