spewy or standard?

[BigBadBabar]

or don't do this a lot but have it in your arsenal?

1/2 6m
sb donk
unknown bb but seems aggro in the few orbits i've seen
5 players
Converter

especially interested in what you guys think of the flop play
turn and riv seemed to me like they had to follow logically from that, riv especially to fold out ace high or bottom pair or something

Pre-flop: (5 players) hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
<font color="#cc0000">hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6SB, 4 players)
<font color="#cc0000">SB bets</font>, <font color="#cc0000">BB raises</font>, <font color="#cc0000">hero 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB calls.

Turn: 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6.5BB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>, BB calls.

River: 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.5BB, 3 players)
BB checks, <font color="#cc0000">hero bets</font>

thoughts?

[sethypooh21]

Flop play is bad. You don't want SB out of the hand, you want him around for your implied odds to kick in. Further, 3-betting reduces your implied odds but putting more in now rather than later. You're unlikely to go multiple bets on the big streets when you hit your flush after this action.

Turn card is actually a pretty bad card to semi-bluff at. If he has 77, he suspects you don't have him beat even more now.

River, I dunno, does an Axhh fold here ever? Now that you bloated the pot on the flop, he's never folding any pair. Basically, you're hoping he was on a K-hi FD now - anything else that folds you already beat.

[jstill]

guru had a hand like this at one point I think he hit on the turn tho or took a freecard on the turn and hit the river or missed and folded to a bet i forget, he didnt 3 barrel after the flop 3bet in position.

flop play is ok i think, but I think u should freecard the turn, hes mostly got made hands if hes raising the flop donk by sb (most people wont semi bluff vs a donker here in a 3 way pot) so hes not going much of anywhere to a turn bet if he doesnt insta muck the flop, plus 8x cr's u alot on the turn. I could be wrong and maybe 4x or PPs below 8 or slightly above will fold (if u have that kinda read, most villains wont even after all the strenght uve shown), but once he calls the turn I dont think its worth a river bet.

the main advantage is pay 1 extra sb now see 2 cards and still get two bets in on the river when he leads out and u flushed or by investing that extra sb u could free up outs if sb has Qx or Jx with a flopped pair or u lose Ahx with a weak pair by sb that will have a redraw if u hit on the turn.

keeping the implied odds arguement and letting 2 players put 2 bets in while u likely have a pot equity edge is definitely legit, but here where ur directly behind the guy who took initiative its going to be hard to get both to come along on the turn or river if u hit anyways.

Basically I dont do what u did very often, not sure if its better than calling and if i did do it i wouldnt bet the turn and if i bet the turn Id check the river becuz villain has pairs alot and I think he either folds the flop or turn or is showing down, and if he was semi bluffing u beat most of those hands ( i duno why bb would raise the Kx or Ax fd tho? or any fd ftm)

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
( i duno why bb would raise the Kx or Ax fd tho? or any fd ftm)

[/ QUOTE ]


I do this with a FD sometimes if I have a read that the SB donker is 'foldy' vs. flop aggression - I'm expecting to win the hand with a bet UI on the turn about 20-30% of the time. Plus, if I can fold out AK no heart from the original PFR.

But this is an uncommon situation.

[sharpie]

I think the flop is fine.

I would probably check the turn, but as played I would bet the river in this large pot to fold out K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[DavidC]

[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is fine.

I would probably check the turn, but as played I would bet the river in this large pot to fold out K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say he had 65 for the double-gut on the flop, would this fold out 5x? Just curious.

[Scary_Tiger]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think the flop is fine.

I would probably check the turn, but as played I would bet the river in this large pot to fold out K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]x[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

Let's say he had 65 for the double-gut on the flop, would this fold out 5x? Just curious.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not a chance in hell.

Don't 3-bet the flop. Don't bet the turn. Don't bet the river.

Congratulations you missed all three streets.

[jba]

i really don't mind the flop that much.

turn I would check though. river too.

[Absolution]

I don't like it because you don't have enough of a read.

[Gurravasa]

Don't raise flop. You are drawing here and want SB in the hand to contribute to the pot if you hit your draw. As played I check turn and fold UI if BB bets river. As played on turn you must bet/fold river since getting A-high FD to fold is probably your only chance to take down this fairly big pot. But you shouldn't be in that situation at all...