LIVE 1/2 WORKSHOP

[whorasaurus]

Hey guys, i grind it out at 1/2 couple of times a month. Lately, I feel like my game has gotten stale, and I'm not getting much better as a player. For most of my time at b/m 1/2 I've been a tag-nit, pretty much raising for value 99+ and AQ+, hitting a hand, and taking people to valuetown. Since the players at 1/2 are godawful, this has worked out ok for me.

I almost have a $5k roll, so I'm looking to break into 2/5 soon. But in the meantime, I've been adjusting my game, just getting looser in general. I've been doing some questionable things, like 3-betting w/ ATo to isolate some drunk/bad player.

Enough preamble. There are two features of live low limit play I wanted to discuss. The first is table image. How important is this? I find whenever i sit down at a table, I consciously straddle/raise/donk off about $40-50 bucks to give ppl the illusion that I am loose, there to have a good time, whatever. Once I've "primed" the table, I tighten up and wait for premium hands/flops to get the big monies in. But I've begun to question if this is even worth it. In many cases, the players are just so bad that your image doesn't even register. You know the type...players who c/rai for 100BBs in a limped pot w/ TPMK...players who check the nuts till the river then go ZOMG ALLLL INNNNNNNN...and so on. Should I even engage my brain here? or just read the magazines that the casino provides until i get a good hand.

The other thing is c-betting w/ air, especially against multiple opponents. I find that most players are HUGE calling stations, making c-betting usually a disaster. Two barrels are usually needed, which can get very messy if villain decides to c/r turn, or open push river. In short, I probably c-bet 66% of flops HU in position, 30-50% HU OOP, and 10% w/ two or more opponents (these numbers reflect situations when i miss the flop/don't have a made hand).

I bring this up b/c just tonight I was amazed at what a pussy I was. I raised AQo on the button to 20 and get two limp callers. Flop came 992 two diamonds. They both checked to me AND I CHECKED. At the time I saw NO equity in c-betting, because i estimated the chances of both players folding to be very low. In these spots I always get some jerkoff calling me w/ pocket 3's or some garbage flush draw. Then on the turn I psych myself out and check behind, or often fold to some bet.

Well thats it. Advice on all streets appreciated. I know live players are a minority here, but let's see if there's any productive feedback.

[reup]

exploit peoples weaknessness and dont be a pussy

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey guys, i grind it out at 1/2 couple of times a month. Lately, I feel like my game has gotten stale, and I'm not getting much better as a player. For most of my time at b/m 1/2 I've been a tag-nit, pretty much raising for value 99+ and AQ+, hitting a hand, and taking people to valuetown. Since the players at 1/2 are godawful, this has worked out ok for me.

I almost have a $5k roll, so I'm looking to break into 2/5 soon. But in the meantime, I've been adjusting my game, just getting looser in general. I've been doing some questionable things, like 3-betting w/ ATo to isolate some drunk/bad player.

Enough preamble. There are two features of live low limit play I wanted to discuss. The first is table image. How important is this? I find whenever i sit down at a table, I consciously straddle/raise/donk off about $40-50 bucks to give ppl the illusion that I am loose, there to have a good time, whatever. Once I've "primed" the table, I tighten up and wait for premium hands/flops to get the big monies in. But I've begun to question if this is even worth it. In many cases, the players are just so bad that your image doesn't even register. You know the type...players who c/rai for 100BBs in a limped pot w/ TPMK...players who check the nuts till the river then go ZOMG ALLLL INNNNNNNN...and so on. Should I even engage my brain here? or just read the magazines that the casino provides until i get a good hand.

The other thing is c-betting w/ air, especially against multiple opponents. I find that most players are HUGE calling stations, making c-betting usually a disaster. Two barrels are usually needed, which can get very messy if villain decides to c/r turn, or open push river. In short, I probably c-bet 66% of flops HU in position, 30-50% HU OOP, and 10% w/ two or more opponents (these numbers reflect situations when i miss the flop/don't have a made hand).

I bring this up b/c just tonight I was amazed at what a pussy I was. I raised AQo on the button to 20 and get two limp callers. Flop came 992 two diamonds. They both checked to me AND I CHECKED. At the time I saw NO equity in c-betting, because i estimated the chances of both players folding to be very low. In these spots I always get some jerkoff calling me w/ pocket 3's or some garbage flush draw. Then on the turn I psych myself out and check behind, or often fold to some bet.

Well thats it. Advice on all streets appreciated. I know live players are a minority here, but let's see if there's any productive feedback.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I've been logging a TON of hours in live 1/2 and 2/5 games lately, and I've been having a ridiculous amount of success (compared to last year when I think I was very much in your spot, winning but not feeling like I was comfortable/dominant or really getting the most out of my table). So, you can take that for what its worth, I'll tell you the changes I've made and what has been working well for me, and you can see if there is anything that you like that you want to use.

First off, with regards to image, stop all that right now. I used to do the same thing, its just costing you money. This doesn't mean image isn't important, but there are subtler things you can do for image that do NOT cost you any money. Its a 1/2 game, you honestly can't afford to be blowing 50 bucks every session trying to warm up a table when your image is only going to make you about that much in return, if you are lucky. I like to talk a lot, and I'm loud. I don't mean I'm yelling or being a douche, just that I have a naturally loud voice, and I am very conversational. This gives the impression that I am always active, always involved, and always present, even though I'm obviously the tightest player at the table. Most of these people aren't making notes, they are just forming vague, general impressions, so this works just as well as limping and straddling and other -EV plays.

The other thing I do is I often drink a few beers. I've got a pretty good tolerance, so encouraging everyone to have a beer or two (especially a certain type of player) is huge for me. It doesn't pay off like you think, in that they immediately get wasted and go apeshit. What happens is that, over a long session (6+ hours) they start to get worn out a lot faster, if they've been drinking. They get to a semi-hungover state that involves lots of calling and betting and not much folding or imaginative play.

What I will ALSO do is make neutral EV gambles that seem like gambling. This means side betting, playing hands dark for a street or two (ok, this can be + or -EV depending on position and a few other things but its very close to neutral EV the way I do it and with the players I do it.) All of these are advertising that DOESNT COST YOU ANY MONEY.

Now, on to the actual poker. C-betting is very dangerous in these games. I obviously haven't eliminated it entirely, but I've cut back a LOT. It takes a very special kind of flop for me to bother, and that is very dependent on my image and reads. A recurring theme through the next part of this post is READS. These are so amazingly important in a game with this many terrible players, I think you can honestly increase your winrate by 50% simply by going from bad/average to good/great at your reading ability. It just IS that easy to know when a bet is going to take it if you pay very, very close attention at all times. This reminds me: put away the iPod. You should always have something to do at the table, so you shouldn't need a distraction. Pay attention ALWAYS. The tells are there for you to see. Most people either ALWAYS do something or NEVER do something, and you need to pay attention to find out which one it is.

Even more important than scaling back the c-betting is eliminating double-barrels/real bluffs almost entirely. I honestly pretty much don't ever bluff any more. Maybe one per session or so, if the situation is very good. C-bets don't count as bluffs, but 2barrels do, so I don't do that. What I DO, however, is induce bluffs.

It might just be the way I am at the table, but a certain type of player just LOVES to bluff at me when I show weakness. So I do it a lot. Most players at the table don't ever raise unless they have you, so I end up folding a LOT to a raise. I will very often table my bottom 2 pair when I'm folding. So often on these boards I hear people afraid to show weakness, or afraid to be thought of as folding big hands or being bullied around. Maybe that works for the way they play, but for me, I NEVER show my bluffs and ALWAYS show when I make big folds or tight plays. Sklansky wrote about this in "Getting the Best of It," although he was talking about limit and the added edge of being able to bluff pots. I think it applies in these types of games. You just have to know your man. Fold the monsters face-up to the old nits, and then give the younger, drinking players rope to hang themselves. Nothing reduces variance like snap-calling all-ins on the turn with top 2 versus bottom pair no kicker. However, playing a weaker style like this (which isn't my STANDARD play, I just do it from time to time as table conditions dictate) means you are going to be giving a lot of free cards and pricing people in. What does this mean? That you must have discipline. You are going to have to fold some hands. People are going to be getting there against you. And you are going to have to know when the raiser made his gutshot and when he is taking advantage of your perceived weakness. I can't give you any hard advice on this, other than to reiterate that you should ALWAYS have reads. I sound like I'm exaggerating or bragging or something, but it seriously just IS EASY to tell when they have it and when they don't. Practice all the time with this. Especially when you aren't in the hand. Once you become extremely comfortable and confident, you will have absolutely no problem taking one off with AK on a AT43 board. The guy DEFINITELY has 55-99 and just is never calling a turn bet. You can see it in the way he called the flop. But he IS firing a PSB when the Q comes on the river. So let him. Things like this are HUGE differences in your winrate. But they require a lot of discipline.

That was a lot of rambling, I wrote it in one burst and I didn't read it over or edit. Some of what I said might be gibberish. But those are the changes I've made in my game and my approach and the results have been amazing for me. I'm absolutely destroying my game. But I play in the softest game EVER, so your results may very. This type of stuff may blow up in other games. But I bet it doesn't.

If you want to have a seperate discussion about spotting tells and what to be observing, we could definitely do that. I've got a lot of good stuff on that, and I'm sure many others here do too.

[Al_Money]

Honestly, don't worry about table image. Play straight forward, you will absolutely still get paid off. I folded for about an hour straight a few weeks ago and got paid off huge with a set against like mid pair or some [censored]. ABC TAG FTW.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Honestly, don't worry about table image. Play straight forward, you will absolutely still get paid off. I folded for about an hour straight a few weeks ago and got paid off huge with a set against like mid pair or some [censored]. ABC TAG FTW.

[/ QUOTE ]

This approach will win money. But it won't win all of the money.