KJs vs maniac and overcaller

[Puckhead]

Party Poker
Limit Holdem Ring game
Limit: $1/$2 10 players Converter

Reads: UTG was a maniac, PFRing like 90% of his hands. I saw him show down 76o that he had PFRed, so I was just waiting to take a shot at him. He was very LAG postflop, but not quite as bad. No good read on MP2, which made this hand a little tougher.

Pre-flop: (10 players) Hero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
<font color="red">UTG raises</font>, 3 folds, MP2 calls, Hero calls, 4 folds.

I have no respect for his raise, so I called.

Flop: 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7.5SB, 3 players)
<font color="red">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

This was probably a raise or fold type decision. I hate my call here.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5.25BB, 3 players)
<font color="red">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Picked up my club draw, not sure if I have enough to raise.

River: 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8.25BB, 3 players)
<font color="red">UTG bets</font>, MP2 calls, <font color="red">Hero raises</font>...

So I river my flush, but the board is double paired. The overcaller makes me more nervous than UTG. What's your river play here? Call, raise/call, raise/cap?

[beaster]

OK on the preflop call, but I would have seriously considered 3-betting.

With two overcards and a backdoor flush draw I raise the flop. I want to take control of this hand and set up the turn.

Bet the turn. It's likely it will be checked to you after your flop raise and you're hoping to take it down right now. If either player bets out I would just call. It's likely you now need to improve to win and there's only one more card coming.

River raise is fine. If 3-bet, call.

[MrWookie]

I disagree with most of your post. I definitely 3bet preflop. The cold caller isn't ideal, but you're still probably ahead.

I don't like a flop raise. The board is ragged, but with the other guy in there, we're not all that likely to be ahead. I think we can pretty easily peel, though.

Turn is an easy call. No way a semibluff works often enough to be +EV w/ the maniac in there. Probably not even if you were HU with him.

River is an easy, easy cap. Who knows what the maniac will 3bet, but we're probably beating it.

[Homer315]

I think I probably 3-bet preflop as well. As for the flop and turn, I think slowing down is fine. It's unlikely king high is the best hand right now, even if the maniac is raise pre-flop with any ace, we're still behind. If he's raising and betting with 9-10 or whatever, let him hang himself. I've found that raising and re-raising with nothing except overcards against a maniac isn't always that helpful.

I cap the river if it's 3-bet. In fact, I pray he 3-bets it for me.

[OziBattler]

I like raising here for isolation preflop even with the guy in the middle

a flop raise will probably buy us the lead for the turn but we really only have overcards outs and of course the backdoor.

turn. meh, as played I dont think raising will fold them both out for one more bet and the pot isnt that big and we still havent made our hand yet. note that if we give full outs for the flush and overcards you are 2.1:1 to make you hand on the river so I suppose there could be a case for raising the turn by coupling our 2.1:1 against 2 opponents with the slim chance of them both folding. But it seems marginal and its quite possible that your kicker isnt good if you spike a pair. and lets not forget the paired board and possibility of a boat. hmmmm, I suppose that means Im still calling but lets see what others say.....

yes, raise the river. I wouldnt be concerned about MP2 since he surely would have raised the river if he boated and had been paying any attention to the crazy1.

[string4]

*grunch*

From what I can see you had a great idea and just need to adjust a bit. First of all, if you are going to punish a maniac, try to get him isolated with you through re-raising preflop. If you had 3-bet, you might have wound up HU, a much better situation. Also, remember that although he is obviously raising in a -EV style, he might actually have a hand at one point or another (unless if he is one of those that only limp their quality hands and raise their mediocre.) This is read-dependent and you might question if a "trap" hand like KJ is one that you want to do this with.

Flop - You had about 4 non-compromised Overcard outs and add an out and 1/2 for backdoor flush (I count 5.5 outs total), around 7 to 1, for a pot offering 9.5 to 1....your call was right.

Turn - nice to see the club hit - your outs are up to 9 for the flush and you still have a couple overcards - I think the call was correct, since you know this guy is postflop LAG and unlikely to fold to a raise (besides you really prefer not to have to call a reraise here either).

So, I think you played this hand just right, but I'm learning and welcome critique of this....

[Magic76]

I think I would just call here. You got a maniac playing any 2 cards. Its very difficult to say what he had. Personally I would have folded this hand after seeing the flop. You really didnt have much to work with there.

[Puckhead]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would just call here. You got a maniac playing any 2 cards. Its very difficult to say what he had. Personally I would have folded this hand after seeing the flop. You really didnt have much to work with there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Calling was probably my last option, honestly. Maniac could have any 2 cards- if he doesn't have Ax[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 88, or one of the two remaining 2's or 4's, I'm way ahead. So I think my raise was ok, whether or not to reraise a 3-bet was more what I was worried about.

I thought my flop call was pretty thin, but others have me rethinking that. Thanks all for your comments.