Ok - 50nl. Kings. Can I fold either?

scallop · #1 10-03-2007, 09:41 AM

Both these hands are against the same villian. I hate saying i made a crying call, but In hand one can I find a fold. Im not sure if he plays qq, jj in the same way.
Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $50.25
BB: $87.30
UTG: $84.05
MP: $28.90
Hero (CO): $140.05
BTN: $49.25

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $2.00, MP folds, Hero raises to $6.00, 3 folds, UTG raises to $15.00, Hero calls $9.00

Flop: ($30.75) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $10.00, Hero calls $10.00

Turn: ($50.75) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets $35.00, Hero calls $35.00

River: ($120.75) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
UTG bets all-in for $24.05, Hero calls $24.05

Pot Size: $168.85 ($3 Rake)

UTG had A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Aces and Sixes) and WON (+$81.80)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (two pair, Kings and Sixes) and LOST (-$84.05)

In the second hand, when he 4-bets me my thought process was something like "surely he cannot have Aces again, vs my kings - same opponent same setup? Should I be folding here?

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $70.20
BB: $74.80
Hero (UTG): $135.40
CO: $65.65
BTN: $55.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
Hero raises to $2.00, 3 folds, BB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $18.25, BB raises to $40.00, Hero ... ?

Also, I had some history with him in this spot

thac · #2 10-03-2007, 09:43 AM

I really think both of them are fine.

scallop · #3 10-03-2007, 09:44 AM

yeah but do i push in hand two ?

thac · #4 10-03-2007, 09:46 AM

You can, he's not folding anything he 5-bets.

Berky · #5 10-03-2007, 10:00 AM

Both are fine. Push hand two.

scallop · #6 10-03-2007, 10:05 AM

I decided to flat call preflop. Wanted to stick it on any pretty much any flop.

Sickeningly:

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $70.20
BB: $74.80
Hero (UTG): $135.40
CO: $65.65
BTN: $55.50

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
Hero raises to $2.00, 3 folds, BB raises to $6.00, Hero raises to $18.25, BB raises to $40.00, Hero calls $21.75

Flop: ($80.25) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
BB bets all-in for $34.80, Hero calls $34.80

Turn: ($149.85) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

River: ($149.85) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players - 1 All-In)

Pot Size: $149.85 ($3 Rake)

BB had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (a pair of Aces) and LOST (-$74.80)
Hero had K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (three of a kind, Kings) and WON (+$72.05)

I think I can find a fold in hand two, Im sure it's possible, I just dont know how to work out whens when.

CobraGoat · #7 10-03-2007, 10:11 AM

hand one 4 bet PF or raise his flop bet.

hand 2 shove at that point.

dirtylobster · #8 10-03-2007, 10:11 AM

Hand 1: Lol @ folding. You're only beat by AA and although it's a pretty likely holding he probably has QQ/JJ here enough of the time for you to make sklansky buxx.

Hand 2: Shove unless he's real nitty about 4-betting preflop (which I've noticed most of NL50 players are). I'd never ever fold this at NL100+ but you could make a case here for it.... but I still wouldn't.

n4rf · #9 10-03-2007, 10:13 AM

It's easier than some might think. Yeah, most people don't ever fold KK preflop, which is fine against certain opponents. It's never an easy fold, but I haven't been surprised to see AA turned over in 4bet pots especially if villain has a tight pfr%.

dirtylobster · #10 10-03-2007, 10:16 AM

Yeah at NL25 and lower you see a lot of random craziness preflop. At NL100+ you start to see more "thoughtful" preflop craziness. NL50 seems to me like the middle of it where most people are really abc preflop and only 4-bets AA/KK and sometimes AK/QQ. There are some exceptions of course but not too many.