How many online pros average +500k a year in the world?

[the_casino_kid]

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For an earning level to be valid it probably has to be averaged over 5 years of full time play. The effect of variance in poker is extreme and players with a nice positive edge can still have ugly long-term downswings of 1 year or more, just as negative edge players can have long-term upswings of 1 year or more.

In terms of pure poker income (no endorsements, poker businesses, books, royalties, or merchandise, etc.) I'd say there are very few players in the world with the edge, volume, and consistency of play to make $500K+/year. And fewer still with the longevity to establish their win-rate with high certainty (95%+ certainty). Definitely less than 100.

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1 year downswing??? i've never seen one but if you say they exist they must..depends on how many hands played..

[Jamougha]

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If the majority of the on-line poker world put in a real 40 hour work week, the number of 500k+ winners would skyrocket.

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No it wouldn't. The number of tags at each table would jump quite a lot and so the games would be much tougher.

[bottomset]

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All,

Just for a humorous comparison, the average salary of Goldman Sachs's 22,000 employees last year was over $500k. The top 250 Goldman employees averaged about $7M each. Sorta sick how little money there really is in poker.

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I imagine the poker players making 500k are putting in maybe 25-50% of the hours the "low" end Goldman Sach's employees

though the scale of Goldman Sach's is pretty insane

[the_casino_kid]

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The thing is, if you can make 500k a year in poker, you probably can also get around the same salary at a big firm (since those players who make that much aren't stupid you know) so why try it by playing poker while you can a lot more security at this big firm... I think the only people who think it's worth making loads of money in poker are gifted students who don't have any other opportunity to make this kind of money anywhere else while they are still in college...

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oh yeah cause it's so easy to get a job a sachs, and firms are super easy to get into as well..pfft

[Jamougha]

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All,

Just for a humorous comparison, the average salary of Goldman Sachs's 22,000 employees last year was over $500k. The top 250 Goldman employees averaged about $7M each. Sorta sick how little money there really is in poker.

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It would be interesting to know what the average hours per week worked is. Pretty sure my hourly rate is greater than the average hourly at Sachs.

[MicroBob]

70 hours a week in the corporate world would definitely drive me insane.
The fact that I would likely be a miserable failure at it anyway would only exacerbate the oncoming insanity.

40-45 hours a week in the corporate world would still stand a good chance of driving me insane or, in the very least, leaving me pretty darned miserable regardless of the success and income I might accidentally achieve.

[restless]

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The thing is, if you can make 500k a year in poker, you probably can also get around the same salary at a big firm (since those players who make that much aren't stupid you know) so why try it by playing poker while you can a lot more security at this big firm... I think the only people who think it's worth making loads of money in poker are gifted students who don't have any other opportunity to make this kind of money anywhere else while they are still in college...

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I think the key point here is corporate world vs da underground. Not everyone can be happy in the corporate world. Some people even go temporarily insane in that environment.

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[Kilay]

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The thing is, if you can make 500k a year in poker, you probably can also get around the same salary at a big firm (since those players who make that much aren't stupid you know) so why try it by playing poker while you can a lot more security at this big firm... I think the only people who think it's worth making loads of money in poker are gifted students who don't have any other opportunity to make this kind of money anywhere else while they are still in college...

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oh yeah cause it's so easy to get a job a sachs, and firms are super easy to get into as well..pfft

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Well, as I said, those people raking in that much of money in poker are not stupid... A lot of companies want people who are smart 'cause they tend to make money for the named company... And even if that doesn't work there is always the stock market, a lot more money to be made than at poker and I've heard (and it's not that weird when you come to think of it) you need about the same talents as making it to the big time in poker so...

[jeff329]

It is a lot MORE consistent money if you are good at poker to play poker than if you are a good trader and you personally invest.

[fnord_too]

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All,

Just for a humorous comparison, the average salary of Goldman Sachs's 22,000 employees last year was over $500k. The top 250 Goldman employees averaged about $7M each. Sorta sick how little money there really is in poker.

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As the article mentions, this is a mean rather than a median, i.e. most people in Goldman's get paid a lot less than this. Still pretty amazing though.

The reason why there's not a lot of money in poker is because - well, all you're doing is playing poker. People with real jobs do something useful with economic value added. Most of the guys who are smart enough to kill high stakes poker games could make more as securities traders. Slightly different work ethic / lifestyle though.

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fund managers and traders don't really add economic value either, they are just in a better racket.

OP's question was averages 500k/year. I take that to mean has EV of 500k/year, which, even if the games were static (i.e. not getting tougher due to people busting out, same number spread, same distribution of games, etc.) I think your number is on the order of 20-40 who could maintain that EV over a three year stretch.