43s flops pair+OESD OOP, 100BBs deep in 3r

mlagoo · #1 05-24-2007, 03:58 PM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (9 handed) internettexasholdem.com

Hero (t20925)
MP1 (t29255)
MP2 (t24765)
MP3 (t6030)
CO (t21555)
Button (t35780)
SB (t7440)
BB (t17030)
UTG (t22035)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to t600, MP1 calls t600, 4 folds, SB calls t500, 1 fold.

Flop: (t1900) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets t1500, MP1 calls t1500, SB folds.

Turn: (t4900) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero does what?

Opponent is not good but not terrible... probably slightly better than the average drooling 3r player. What's your favorite line here?

WarDekar · #2 05-24-2007, 04:40 PM

Bet/push?

I'm not sure how you can do anything else at this point, let's see... 5k in the pot you have 19k behind and he has 27k behind so no bet/push won't work. Check/shove? Yeah check/shove... Since you opened UTG+1 pre-flop I think he could very well put you on QQ-AA and fold smaller overpairs anyway, plus you have outs even if he does happen to call with an over-pair. He could also donk with flush draw here. If it checks through, well you'll just have to evaluate river then. I really am not sure what his range could be since I don't have a read, but generally I think he either has an overpair here or some kind of flush-draw unless he decided to float with plain overs, in which case you definitely take it with a check/shove.

Yeah I think I like check/shove, it's a 3r dooood you gotta get chippps

Newt_Buggs · #3 05-24-2007, 06:07 PM

fold preflop

mlagoo · #4 05-24-2007, 06:35 PM

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fold preflop

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i feel like with 100BBs and a hand that has the potential to make a very strong hand, against the caliber of players in the 3r, this is a mistake. but i guess a hand like this (where a lot of the strength of the hand will be in semibluffing draws) is a lot more difficult to play OOP, so perhaps you're right.

WarDekar · #5 05-24-2007, 06:38 PM

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fold preflop

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i feel like with 100BBs and a hand that has the potential to make a very strong hand, against the caliber of players in the 3r, this is a mistake. but i guess a hand like this (where a lot of the strength of the hand will be in semibluffing draws) is a lot more difficult to play OOP, so perhaps you're right.

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I really don't see what's so bad about playing this UTG+1 - you're giving off much more strength than your hand really has by raising it PF which can be great for semi-bluffing. Plus you get to control action and can use check/raising which also gives off the signal of a lot of strength and can get him to lay down hands that are ahead of yours, and gets more chips of his when he decides to bet/fold.

When you do hit something you can usually get paid off pretty well, too.

NoahSD · #6 05-24-2007, 06:59 PM

[ QUOTE ]
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fold preflop

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i feel like with 100BBs and a hand that has the potential to make a very strong hand, against the caliber of players in the 3r, this is a mistake. but i guess a hand like this (where a lot of the strength of the hand will be in semibluffing draws) is a lot more difficult to play OOP, so perhaps you're right.

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Yeah.. and it's pretty significant that 43s makes less straights than 45s. I mean.. opening 45s here would be pretty marginal and I'd probably drop that too. 43s is much weaker.

shaundeeb · #7 05-24-2007, 07:24 PM

PF open is fine in this tourney where people fold to cbets a lot etc. I bet the turn here here will let you know if he has you beat.

mlagoo · #8 05-24-2007, 08:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
PF open is fine in this tourney where people fold to cbets a lot etc. I bet the turn here here will let you know if he has you beat.

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dude thats super simplistic. sure, he'll let me know if he has me beat, and he also might price me out of drawing. b/f'ing is really gross here.

Hercules · #9 05-25-2007, 06:14 AM

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PF open is fine in this tourney where people fold to cbets a lot etc. I bet the turn here here will let you know if he has you beat.

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Chances are high that we are already beat after the flop.
Just thinking how to take it away or draw cheap
----> i am c/shoving here. If he checks behind, i give up if i dont hit, cuz a river bet would be a tough sell.

Tackleberry · #10 05-25-2007, 06:49 AM

Does nobody rates the flop-bet to be too high? If Villain has two overcards, he might fold as well against a bet of say 1k. Otherwise he makes a mistake. When he has a flushdraw he makes an error as well. If he has an overpair he will call or raise us anyway.

The last sentence is true for me on the turn as well. I can´t see how we could profitably shove here ... a flush is not (yet) possible, a straight is extremely unlikely (or should Villain assume that we raise 74 from UTG?!) and even a set I would not often expect in this situation (UTG-Raise with 33/66 at a 9-handed table?) - trips with a 5 even more less! So what remains which would make a shove plausible?

MP1 calls preflop an UTG-Raise and calls a large flopbet. I would assume that he actually as an overpair and that he won´t fold it against a shove. At worst he will have AK in [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and even in this case he might call us as a shove looks like a desperate bluff.

I would bet 900 (max. 1k) on the flop, check the turn and proceed by odds and outs when Villain bets.

But please be aware that I´m no expert ... [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]