Another turn check raise......doh!

Douglas Leslie · #1 05-20-2007, 05:08 PM

Villain is unknown. I seriously considered checking the turn because there seemed to be little reason for villain to call here without a Queen, but I guessed he could have a pocket pair. Is it reasonable to fold to the check raise against somebody I have no reads on?

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 1 fold, MP2 calls, Hero raises, 4 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
Villain checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, Villain calls, MP2 folds.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Villain checks, Hero bets, Villain raises, Hero?

fretelöo · #2 05-20-2007, 05:10 PM

I don't think I'm folding an OP just yet. Villain could also have A9, thinking (correctly) that you don't have a Q either.

Douglas Leslie · #3 05-20-2007, 05:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I'm folding an OP just yet. Villain could also have A9, thinking (correctly) that you don't have a Q either.

[/ QUOTE ]

But would he call the flop with A9? The only way I can see that I am ahead here is if he has a small to middle pocket pair or else is trying a total bluff. Should I be calling down to ensure that other players don't try to steal hands with similar stunts in future, or am I crediting them with too many powers of observation at this level?

F. McSimmons · #4 05-20-2007, 05:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think I'm folding an OP just yet. Villain could also have A9, thinking (correctly) that you don't have a Q either.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't see A9 calling this flop, although this is party.

MacGuyV · #5 05-20-2007, 05:46 PM

I call the flop w/ A9 all day. That doesn't really matter though - a lot of his non Q hands are total bluffs.

marchron · #6 05-20-2007, 09:32 PM

Check/call-check/raise spells doom. You have too much hand to fold, though. JJ and TT would be turbo-mucks.

unterfish · #7 05-20-2007, 09:38 PM

Easy call-down.

milesdyson · #8 05-20-2007, 09:42 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Check/call-check/raise spells doom. You have too much hand to fold, though. JJ and TT would be turbo-mucks.

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AA is only slightly better than JJ or TT here. 88 and lower is where you fold because 9x beats you and almost all bluffing hands have at least 6 outs to beat you. T3, for instance, can hit a T or 9 and still win.

00Snitch · #9 05-21-2007, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Check/call-check/raise spells doom. You have too much hand to fold, though. JJ and TT would be turbo-mucks.

[/ QUOTE ]
AA is only slightly better than JJ or TT here. 88 and lower is where you fold because 9x beats you and almost all bluffing hands have at least 6 outs to beat you. T3, for instance, can hit a T or 9 and still win.

[/ QUOTE ]

QFT

I call down and pray for some sort of semibluff like J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but I expect to get shown QJ or QT, maybe a 99.

Douglas Leslie · #10 05-21-2007, 03:16 AM

Is there anything to be said for checking the turn here with the intention of betting the river if checked to and calling if villain bets, given that there is nothing on the board apart from a Q that he might find helpful? Against a loose passive player it is an easy bet, but what about a good opponent? What is the correct default play on the turn against an unknown?