43s flops pair+OESD OOP, 100BBs deep in 3r

[adanthar]

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you've not actually added anything yet curtains, other than continually repeating how bad it is. i understand that preflop was a mistake, i get it. there are other streets in the op. either contribute or shut up, dude.

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why? he's right. PF is so bad that there's no point discussing the turn (for the same reason no less). you're against idiots that won't fold no matter what you do so who cares what your line is, unless you manage to get lots of chips in drawing thin.

[curtains]

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you've not actually added anything yet curtains, other than continually repeating how bad it is. i understand that preflop was a mistake, i get it. there are other streets in the op. either contribute or shut up, dude.

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The rest of the hand isn't so exciting. Ok the flop play is obviously fine. On the turn I'd probably just check, and wouldn't try to get fancy and make this guy fold some overpair or whatever hand he seems to like in a 3 dollar rebuy tournament. If the guy bets and I put him on a hand like 99, I'm not going to try to make him fold with some fancy checkraise. There is no way that is how you win tournaments like this.


Also I'm going to say it again, despite the fact that you already completely understand. I repeat it over and over because it's such a major leak IMHO that it needs to be addressed and is about 10-20x more important than the postflop play. You simply don't beat bad players (which is what 3r opponents are) by playing weak hands out of position. Honestly I think raising 87s in your position would be pretty dreadful as well.

These guys will throw their money at you when you have good hands, you don't need to get all Daniel Negreanu on them preflop.

[mlagoo]

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you've not actually added anything yet curtains, other than continually repeating how bad it is. i understand that preflop was a mistake, i get it. there are other streets in the op. either contribute or shut up, dude.

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why? he's right. PF is so bad that there's no point discussing the turn (for the same reason no less). you're against idiots that won't fold no matter what you do so who cares what your line is, unless you manage to get lots of chips in drawing thin.

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lol @ all of you guys talking about how pf is "so bad." it's probably marginally unprofitable. i dont have 72o here. and curtains assertion that this is a bad raise in 6max nl is just incorrect, imo. i understand that the two are different, which is why this raise is bad. but it's not like it's disastrously bad. it's not a raise i'll make again. but to act like the rest of the hand is completely worthless because of the catastrophic error i made pf is just being argumentative.

[shaundeeb]

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PF open is fine in this tourney where people fold to cbets a lot etc. I bet the turn here here will let you know if he has you beat.

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dude thats super simplistic. sure, he'll let me know if he has me beat, and he also might price me out of drawing. b/f'ing is really gross here.

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if he prices you out of drawing whats the big deal? It's super simplistic cuz this is the 3r there no high level thinking no reason to get fancy and c/r cuz he's not folding if he has you beat but too many people will call the flop with A7 etc and you need to bet for protection vs their awful weak hands they call the flop with that aren't pairs. You have a lot of chips behind b/f is fine seriously bet like 3500.

[mlagoo]

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you've not actually added anything yet curtains, other than continually repeating how bad it is. i understand that preflop was a mistake, i get it. there are other streets in the op. either contribute or shut up, dude.

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The rest of the hand isn't so exciting. Ok the flop play is obviously fine. On the turn I'd probably just check, and wouldn't try to get fancy and make this guy fold some overpair or whatever hand he seems to like in a 3 dollar rebuy tournament. If the guy bets and I put him on a hand like 99, I'm not going to try to make him fold with some fancy checkraise. There is no way that is how you win tournaments like this.

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thanks for this. i think you're likely right, and i think i need to drill that into my head. i often feel like (and perhaps this is a product of having not won for a little while) that while i'm constantly check/folding turns after i CB'd the flop, etc., that i'm bleeding off chips, and i need to be more aggressive to be a winning player -- that maybe the way all these great tournament players win is finding spots that i don't see, or by building up huge stacks early with hyper-aggressive play. but i imagine that's not the case, that in reality they just play solid and continue to get paid off by poor players.

[curtains]

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you've not actually added anything yet curtains, other than continually repeating how bad it is. i understand that preflop was a mistake, i get it. there are other streets in the op. either contribute or shut up, dude.

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why? he's right. PF is so bad that there's no point discussing the turn (for the same reason no less). you're against idiots that won't fold no matter what you do so who cares what your line is, unless you manage to get lots of chips in drawing thin.

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lol @ all of you guys talking about how pf is "so bad." it's probably marginally unprofitable. i dont have 72o here. and curtains assertion that this is a bad raise in 6max nl is just incorrect, imo. i understand that the two are different, which is why this raise is bad. but it's not like it's disastrously bad. it's not a raise i'll make again. but to act like the rest of the hand is completely worthless because of the catastrophic error i made pf is just being argumentative.

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In 6 max, it's a bad raise to make 100% of the time preflop from UTG. I'm sure its ok against the right fields. However if you are playing low stakes 6max, like 5 cent 10 cent (which is about what I'd equate the play at this game as, although maybe closer to 10c 25c), I'd say that raising it UTG would be a clear mistake at the average table.


I think that if you are going to make a play like this, there should definitely be antes, there should definitely be a decent number of regular thinking players who would respect your UTG raise, and you should only do it with higher SC's than 43s. 87s or 76s is pretty much just as deceptive. Honestly in online MTT play, where there is a constant rotating field of random players, I generally don't make these raises ever. It's possible you will occasionally have a table where it makes sense but I think it's the exception to the rule.

[mlagoo]

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PF open is fine in this tourney where people fold to cbets a lot etc. I bet the turn here here will let you know if he has you beat.

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dude thats super simplistic. sure, he'll let me know if he has me beat, and he also might price me out of drawing. b/f'ing is really gross here.

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if he prices you out of drawing whats the big deal? It's super simplistic cuz this is the 3r there no high level thinking no reason to get fancy and c/r cuz he's not folding if he has you beat but too many people will call the flop with A7 etc and you need to bet for protection vs their awful weak hands they call the flop with that aren't pairs. You have a lot of chips behind b/f is fine seriously bet like 3500.

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im inclined to think that c/f'ing is better than b/f. im just probably not ahead all that often on the flop, and most of the draws he has he probably just takes his free card on the turn (because in my experience that's what most inexperienced players do with draws). so if he bets the turn, i'm probably beat... and i guess i can just call if he's offering me very good odds, and fold if he isn't.

[Pudge714]

Preflop sucks.
Fold>Limp>Raise.
You want to preserve your chips so this spot is very different from cash, one reason to make raises like this in cash is to balance your range, but in the 3r that is completely irrelevant. Against such a weak field where everyone is pretty deep you don't want to waste half your stack making fpsy plays.
Once you get to the flop the bet is standard.
I would check/fold the turn unless he makes a really small bet all of your outs are really obvious the board is paired, there is a flush draw on board.

[NoahSD]

Right now I only open 43s on CO/BU at table full of unknowns with 100 BBs. Maybe in sweet tourneys like the 3R I'd open it from the HJ too. I think it's probably a leak to consistently open any earlier (i.e. UTG in 6-max). Whatever, though.. not a huge deal or anything. UTG+1 9-handed is a huge leak, but I mean.. just don't do it again and you're fine and stuff.

[mlagoo]

Bump.

Just thought this was funny because a) it's a 3r and b) i folded suited connectors in EP several times during my million win. thanks guys [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]