Professional No-Limit Hold 'em Volume 1 Review Thread

[Sunny Mehta]

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Im playing $100 NL against somewhat loose players with a couple tight players.Im in LP with AK.According to your book Id need to raise to about $7 to achieve an SPR of about 4.4 assuming I get 2 callers.Now at this point Im thinking......I have only $7 invested into this pot yet because Im gonna cbet the flop the size of the pot,Im commiting to going all in on the turn(assuming I hit the flop or turn).

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Hi DovVN,

From the above quote, it sounds like you are reluctant to commit against these opponents with an SPR of 4.4. So maybe 4.4 is too high for your particular situation. That means you can aim for a lower SPR by raising even more preflop, or if you think they'll fold most of their range to a bigger raise, you can aim for a higher SPR and play a "small pot". (Something we mention throughout the SPR section.)

However, when you say this:

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So if Im one of the callers calling with 77,76 suited,even AQ,Im looking for a good flop to get my money in and bust what looks to me like a big pair.Its doubtful Im gonna call a pot size bet here with a pair on the turn.


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you are (like many players) overestimating how often those hands will hurt you. AQ? Do you know how often AQ (or even 77 or 76): will be dealt on the same hand you have AK, call a raise, flop a very strong hand ON THE SAME FLOP in which you also have a fairly strong hand, get you all-in, AND hold up as the best hand until the river? It's not very often. If you are winning the pot the high majority of the time that that doesn't happen, you can see how favorable your situation is.

-S

[Matt Flynn]

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So I understand that by committing yourself you make the decision easier.Im just not sure how in practice this makes you more money with such a weak hand.I think its the "why" this is a good way to play that is whats confusing people.Me anyways.Maybe you could explain the math behind this a little more?And why would someone be willing to call $7 preflop and then commit to going all in with a weaker hand?I guess we have to assume that we are playing very loose players then.Does it have to do with the fact that they are calling too much preflop with their weaker hand and this makes it correct to get all in on the turn?Maybe Im thinking about this wrong.

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like Sunny said sounds like you're thinking about it right but that your target SPRs are lower than 4. ok, no problem, you just get there when you can against a reasonably broad range. in many games you cannot get there, so you play a smaller pot.

key point is don't build a bigger pot preflop unless you're happy to play it if you hit OR you will be stealing it often (preflop or postflop). if neither condition is satisfied you're making a bad raise unless you're doing it to profitably balance other actions.

[jeffnc]

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I read some more last night rereading some sections.I guess what threw me was that in the early sections it talks about conventional ways of playing.How to keep the pot small,why to keep the pot small.This is exactly why I bought the book.Then it seems to completely change gears when you come to the SPR section.Im just having a hard time wrapping my head around how forcing myself to be commited with such a weak hand can be profitable.

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IMO what you should be taking from the book is:
- what to try for in terms of commitment if you can get it
- if you can't, then whatever you do avoid "no man's land" of difficult SPRs. Pay big pots, or little pots, but not in between. Use SPR to guide what big or little means, and to thus guide your preflop raise sizes and postflop line.

I don't think they "changed gears", I think they offered an alternative way of looking at things. They are explaining to us that there are 3 basic options, one of which might be new to you. They go on to explain that you shouldn't choose the worst option of the 3.

[DovVN]

Ok. That helps.Thanks for the responses guys.Appreciate it.

[Isura]

Finished the book. The stuff on SPR is cool. I would have liked to see more pokerstove type analysis around commitment decisions (eg you get c/r AI on turn, and getting 2:1 what is villains range, our equity, etc)

[ReptileHouse]

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I would have liked to see more pokerstove type analysis around commitment decisions (eg you get c/r AI on turn, and getting 2:1 what is villains range, our equity, etc)

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This would be absolutely fantastic.

[Jzo19]

k quick question , im on the button with JTs in a 6handed game , MP raises 3.5 bb . blinds are tight , and this would create a good spr if i call with a drawing hand in position ,which is good because sometimes i'll hit a big hand sometimes and sometimes i'll steal (i think thats the rationale ya'll gave in the book) ,,,now what percentage of the time do i have to steal to make this play profitable ?

[larrondo]

It occurs to me that if you are in a game where your target SPR's are high, you are in a profitable game when you play big pots, and you will probably have high variance and big swings. If you are in a game where your target SPR's are very low, you are in a profitable game because your opponents are weak/tight and you can steal a lot. Lower variance but probably lower profit. Is that right?

[Galwegian]

Got my copy a week ago and its great. Its nice to see a poker book that presents some genuinely new ideas and ways of thinking about the game. Thanks to Matt, Sunny and Ed.

By the way, I found a nice little application of the spr idea to semibluffing on the flop. Its explained in this thread

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...=0#Post11791114

As a simple example, say you have a 8/9 out draw on the flop and your single opponent makes a pot sized bet into you. If you think the he will fold more than (spr-1)/(spr+5) of the time then an all in reraise is better than folding.

[Matt Flynn]

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k quick question , im on the button with JTs in a 6handed game , MP raises 3.5 bb . blinds are tight , and this would create a good spr if i call with a drawing hand in position ,which is good because sometimes i'll hit a big hand sometimes and sometimes i'll steal (i think thats the rationale ya'll gave in the book) ,,,now what percentage of the time do i have to steal to make this play profitable ?

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lot of "it depends" in that answer. how often do the blinds come in? how much money will you make if you hit a pair? top pair? bigger? do you count semibluffing as stealing? is your opponent tight such that you won't get paid off much if at all, so you have to steal more? is he really loose so the opposite is true?

and what is the cost of stealing? that is, how much money will you lose in failed attempts to steal?