Turn checkraise

private joker · #1 11-06-2007, 02:16 AM

Villain seems pretty okay, a bit on the loose side, but not retarded and not great.

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 4 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]
CO folds, Hero raises, SB folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB raises...

Call down or 3-bet? If you 3-bet, what are you doing if he caps?

(I know this is probably a standard/boring hand, but forgive me while I adjust through this weird transition between my live full-ring habits and short-handed online play).

Nfinity · #2 11-06-2007, 02:19 AM

Just call down. It's a 3 sometimes but it's also a Jack/ Flush draw Repping a Jack often enough to warrant a calldown.

No real reason to re-aggress here. He will only slow down with the hands that you beat, and punish you with the hands that beat you.

DrVanNostrin · #3 11-06-2007, 02:24 AM

You could call and raise a blank river. 3-betting is good too.

MitchL · #4 11-06-2007, 02:46 AM

Call down or 3bet/fold are both fine, but I prefer calldown.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #5 11-06-2007, 03:06 AM

Call down 100% of the time here. I would never consider 3betting in this spot. The fact that he donked the flop actually increases the probability of him having 3x in my mind.

*TT* · #6 11-06-2007, 03:11 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call down or 3bet/fold are both fine, but I prefer calldown.

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how could 3 bet be fine, it exposes the hero to a re-raise bluff/encourages a fold from a bluff. call is the best line.

MitchL · #7 11-06-2007, 03:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call down 100% of the time here. I would never consider 3betting in this spot. The fact that he donked the flop actually increases the probability of him having 3x in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I thought 3bet/fold. I think we are missing value from a large part of his range and are crushed by the only part that could cap. I would just call down, but theoretically I think its an ok play.

ILOVEPOKER929 · #8 11-06-2007, 03:35 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call down 100% of the time here. I would never consider 3betting in this spot. The fact that he donked the flop actually increases the probability of him having 3x in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I thought 3bet/fold. I think we are missing value from a large part of his range and are crushed by the only part that could cap. I would just call down, but theoretically I think its an ok play.

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I feel that the value of hitting my 2 outer is greater than the value to be gained from a lesser hand. I cannot not prove this. What Im basically saying is, I think the typical player will have 3x often enough after this action thats its not worth it to try to maximize our gain from Jx. The fact that we will also be 4bet by a lesser hand a nonzero percent of the time doesnt really concern me but I do think this is a reality we can never ignore, especially when our information on the villain is not likely to be perfect.

Nfinity · #9 11-06-2007, 03:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Call down 100% of the time here. I would never consider 3betting in this spot. The fact that he donked the flop actually increases the probability of him having 3x in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats why I thought 3bet/fold. I think we are missing value from a large part of his range and are crushed by the only part that could cap. I would just call down, but theoretically I think its an ok play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Here it is:

The small % of time that we have opponent beat and we 3-bet we encourage a fold and forgo any value gained on the river.

The large percentage of times we are beat he caps and we just threw a bet at him in parting.

3-betting is a clear example of costing us money when behind, and losing us money when ahead.

Heisenb3rg · #10 11-06-2007, 04:19 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Call down 100% of the time here. I would never consider 3betting in this spot. The fact that he donked the flop actually increases the probability of him having 3x in my mind.

[/ QUOTE ]