J9s on the river

cartman · #1 03-12-2006, 05:51 PM

MP is 28/18/2 and seems pretty solid. CO is unknown.

Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
1 fold, MP raises, CO calls, 2 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (6.50 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, CO calls, Hero raises, MP 3-bets, CO folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero calls.

River: (8.75 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets, Hero?

What do you think so far?

What do you do on the river?

Does your answer change against an unknown?

Thanks,
Cartman

Surf · #2 03-12-2006, 05:54 PM

Hey Cartman,

I would let this one go on the turn. That said, i'm kind of a postflop nit lately and i'd love to hear otherwise.

If you made it to the river it's b/c you think he's capable of semibluffing/betting too much so i'd call the river since the Q doesn't change much.

Surf

Keystone · #3 03-12-2006, 08:07 PM

I fold the turn unless the villian is out of line.

brazilio · #4 03-12-2006, 06:41 PM

I always like multiway flops with mid pairs because it allows me to fold well on the turn against most anybody. Board's awful drawey so I could be persuaded to call down I guess, but if he's behind and drawing he'll usually have a monster draw, and he's not behind by much.

ALL1N · #5 03-12-2006, 08:03 PM

If you were MP here holding, say, AQ, how would you play the hand?

cartman · #6 03-12-2006, 08:15 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you were MP here holding, say, AQ, how would you play the hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would typically call the flop raise and fold unimproved on the turn. Is that correct?

7ontheline · #7 03-12-2006, 08:22 PM

I fold this turn also - not only are you unimproved but the 5 pairs the board and eliminates your Js as outs against an overpair.

ALL1N · #8 03-12-2006, 08:32 PM

Would you entertain the idea of 3-betting to try and isolate what is possibly a draw?

brazilio · #9 03-12-2006, 09:08 PM

I mean he won't have a draw 100% of the time, and when he does have a draw 100% of the time it won't be two overcards + flush draw/straight draw every time, but isn't this really expensive for almost no equity, especially if he'll possibly cap for a free card?

cartman · #10 03-12-2006, 09:34 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Would you entertain the idea of 3-betting to try and isolate what is possibly a draw?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would entertain it but usually decide against it because, in my experience, the presence of the flop caller in the pot makes it more likely than normal that BB's hand is a pair or better instead of a draw. But I thought it entirely possible that the preflop raiser was doing exactly what you described with a big Ace or even with his own draw. That fact combined with the fact that I was getting a pretty good price to try to improve on the river was the reason for my turn call. The pivotal decision in this hand in my opinion was whether to call or fold on the river. I folded because I thought it very likely that if he had taken his actions to that point with Ace high or a draw that he would have checked behind on the river.

What do you think?

Thanks,
Cartman