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#5
09-21-2007, 10:48 AM
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Re: books on RAZZ
[ QUOTE ]
The book you're looking for is "Sklansky on Poker", which is "a combination of Sklansky on Razz..." and something else. Slim [/ QUOTE ] SOR/SOP is clearly the only complete book on the game. There are good (but brief) chapters in the original SS1, Championship stud, Championship tourney poker, and the new FTP strategy guide. I've read all of these, and all have their good points and their bad. One of the major problems with SOP is that it describes how to play in tight/nitty games with a few bits of advice on how to adjust when the antes are large and play opens up a little. Problem is just about any game you find today will be loose, and most have a high ante type structure, so if you play "by the book" you will beat the fish but not the really good players. Luckily there are very few good razz players. *TT* you may rebut here: 
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#6
09-21-2007, 11:49 AM
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Re: books on RAZZ
Until PNL I believed Sklansky on POker to be the best poker book ever written. "Best" defined as doing a really good job of explaining complicated stategies in a manner that is easy to understand.
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#7
09-21-2007, 12:56 PM
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Re: books on RAZZ
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] The book you're looking for is "Sklansky on Poker", which is "a combination of Sklansky on Razz..." and something else. Slim [/ QUOTE ] SOR/SOP is clearly the only complete book on the game. There are good (but brief) chapters in the original SS1, Championship stud, Championship tourney poker, and the new FTP strategy guide. I've read all of these, and all have their good points and their bad. One of the major problems with SOP is that it describes how to play in tight/nitty games with a few bits of advice on how to adjust when the antes are large and play opens up a little. Problem is just about any game you find today will be loose, and most have a high ante type structure, so if you play "by the book" you will beat the fish but not the really good players. Luckily there are very few good razz players. *TT* you may rebut here: [/ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] *TT* you may rebut here: [/ QUOTE ] SGspecial and I had some interesting debates on this topic before, essentially we disagree as to what is found within SOP, yet agree on its worthiness. IMHO David's style is to not spoon feed his readers yet this book was written so well that it comes across as if he was providing a total map to the game, however anyone who takes the time to make notes as they read the book and understand why he makes decisions based on the size of the pot and game texture should become an expert at the game just from reading SOP - the shortcut is to find the conflicting examples and evaluate why there are conflicts. In each situation you will learn a hidden secret to the game that allows you to adjust to game texture, player types, and pot size. Also there are a handful of very good posters in the Stud forum, read their posts religiously. SGSpecial and I are two of the more prolific ones but there are others who really get the game as well. There are also a few traps, posters who adjust the game to fit their style but dont realize they are making long term mistakes by doing this - over time you can easily figure out who is who.
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#8
09-21-2007, 01:33 PM
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Re: books on RAZZ
[ QUOTE ]
*TT* you may rebut here: SGspecial and I had some interesting debates on this topic before, essentially we disagree as to what is found within SOP, yet agree on its worthiness. IMHO David's style is to not spoon feed his readers yet this book was written so well that it comes across as if he was providing a total map to the game, however anyone who takes the time to make notes as they read the book and understand why he makes decisions based on the size of the pot and game texture should become an expert at the game just from reading SOP - the shortcut is to find the conflicting examples and evaluate why there are conflicts. In each situation you will learn a hidden secret to the game that allows you to adjust to game texture, player types, and pot size. [/ QUOTE ] Forgive me for saying so, especially on the day before Yom Kippur, but you sound a little like a talmudic scholar here, poring over the divine and unerring text to find the hidden lessons among the seemingly conflicting statements. (If you're not sure what I'm talking about, ask your friendly neighboorhood Jew). The problem you run into (besides the fact that SOP was not carved into tablets on Mount Sinai) is that reading the text without interpretation can lead to a kind of razz fundamentalism that may have served you well in the wild days of the Stardust but will severely limit your game nowadays. The best example of this is a statement in the book (and I'm paraphrasing) that players with paint cards up are unlikely to enter the pot on 3rd st and there's no need to give advice about how to play against such "maniacs." In my experience, there are an awful lot of players who will come into a pot with paint in the door and a lot of well meaning players who know they should be beating such infidels but get no advice on how best to do it. [ QUOTE ] Also there are a handful of very good posters in the Stud forum, read their posts religiously. SGSpecial and I are two of the more prolific ones but there are others who really get the game as well. There are also a few traps, posters who adjust the game to fit their style but dont realize they are making long term mistakes by doing this - over time you can easily figure out who is who. [/ QUOTE ] You bring up a very good point here. There is a lot of lively debate, and much of it by winning players at different stakes. Funny thing is they often disagree, but still manage to beat the bad players with their own styles. It's a remake of the old Jewish joke: If you have 3 Rabbis in the same room, you usually get 4 opinions. Same thing with razz players. The question is which Rabbi to listen to.
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#9
09-21-2007, 02:17 PM
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Re: books on RAZZ
yeah, TT makes it sound like we should be grateful that David writes in a highly disorganized manner with the usual unclarities and omissions [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]
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#10
09-21-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: books on RAZZ
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] The problem you run into (besides the fact that SOP was not carved into tablets on Mount Sinai) is that reading the text without interpretation can lead to a kind of razz fundamentalism that may have served you well in the wild days of the Stardust but will severely limit your game nowadays. The best example of this is a statement in the book (and I'm paraphrasing) that players with paint cards up are unlikely to enter the pot on 3rd st and there's no need to give advice about how to play against such "maniacs." In my experience, there are an awful lot of players who will come into a pot with paint in the door and a lot of well meaning players who know they should be beating such infidels but get no advice on how best to do it. [/ QUOTE ] This is why we are all eagerly awaiting Al-Zawahiri's new book on Razz Slaughtering the Infidels.
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