Hand 2 of 2 vs. same guy

[ZeeJustin]

Fold preflop. If you don't, you should checkraise the flop. If you don't, you should checkraise the turn. If you don't, you should checkraise the river.

[dankhank]

i would lead the river for 600 if you ever do blocker bets

[samoleus]

cero, I think you played this hand well. your hand looks a lot like a missed draw trying desperately to win the pot. you may well get looked up by a hand as weak as AK.

depending on your opponent's aggression, checking or weak leading the river might be OK too. but I like your line.

[cero_z]

Hi everyone,

For everyone saying fold pre-flop, how deep do the stacks need to be before you call 115 here? I don't mind calling 5% here, even with QJs OOP, but I guess that's too loose. I'm generally super-cautious about dominated hands, and in this hand, I basically was looking for a big flop, but I got one just a tad smaller than I wanted.

Also, I think it's my fault for the way I set up the question, but just to be clear, Villain wasn't pushing me around at all. I never had a hand that I would think about tangling with, until the KK in Hand 1. I didn't have a ton of respect for Villain's play (not that he was bad, just that he wasn't especially tricky or tough--mostly straightforward aggression), so I felt OK about taking a flop with a dicey hand. I expected him to bet it for me a couple of times, so being OOP didn't seem as serious. Still, he seemed reasonable, and I felt like c/c flop, c/r-shoving the turn would accomplish nothing good, since I couldn't see him folding KQ or calling with AK (maybe with AA).

I mostly have a problem with my river bet; as samo said, I think a weak lead would be a good alternative. He'd be hard-pressed to get away from Aces or AK for 500, and he might do something crazy. And of course, I go broke to a set anyway.

[cero_z]

[ QUOTE ]
Fold preflop. If you don't, you should checkraise the flop. If you don't, you should checkraise the turn. If you don't, you should checkraise the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Pre-flop: You might be right.

Flop: I considered a check-push here, repping a combo draw. I do that with two-pair and with sets on boards with combo draws with some regularity. But, two things deterred me: a) the depth of the stacks was such that it would be a sizeable overbet. I wasn't going to c/r to 800 and then fold to a push in this spot. If I c/r, I like all-in the best. But, if I'm crushed, It's a lot to put in to find that out, and if I'm ahead, he has a lot of outs on the flop. Plus, the overbet nature makes it more likely that I'll push out AA and AK (not that I always will), which of course I don't want to do.

Turn: I thought even moreso that c/r'ing the turn after c/c'ing the flop was such a powerful line that it'd fold out the hands I was beating, and get called by everything I wasn't. When I called the turn, I mentally committed my stack to any non-A, -K, -T, and possibly 9 river.

River: I doubt I get a c/r in here against any hand I want to, except a 3rd barrel bluff. I didn't expect a bluff at all, so I don't see the point. That said, I don't like what I did. I guess that leaves a smaller bet.

[Sunny Mehta]

C,

it's not just about the fact that it's "5%" or whatever....it's the fact that a) it's a reraise b) the betting will still be open for the original raiser c) you're giving villain the initiative in a reraised pot so you basically d) need to FLOP big in e) the worst possible absolute position (you act first) and f) the worst possible relative position (raiser is directly to your right) with g) a weak hand to hit "big" flops since h) your cards run together with a lot of hands that dominate you.....

when you talk about his possible hands in your posts, you keep mentioning hands like AA, AK, KQ, sets, etc....if these are hands he could very possibly have, why would you make this preflop call?.....I still wouldn't like it, but I think it would be a less bad call with 7s5s or something like that.....also, postflop I still don't get if you thought he had a hand or if he was bluffing....and either way, why does a turn raise accomplish "nothing"? - if the river is an A,K,T,or 9, or even a blank, what is your plan?....

[cero_z]

Hey Bro,
[ QUOTE ]
C,

it's not just about the fact that it's "5%" or whatever....it's the fact that a) it's a reraise b) the betting will still be open for the original raiser c) you're giving villain the initiative in a reraised pot so you basically d) need to FLOP big in e) the worst possible absolute position (you act first) and f) the worst possible relative position (raiser is directly to your right) with g) a weak hand to hit "big" flops since h) your cards run together with a lot of hands that dominate you.....

when you talk about his possible hands in your posts, you keep mentioning hands like AA, AK, KQ, sets, etc....if these are hands he could very possibly have, why would you make this preflop call?.....I still wouldn't like it, but I think it would be a less bad call with 7s5s or something like that.....also, postflop I still don't get if you thought he had a hand or if he was bluffing....and either way, why does a turn raise accomplish "nothing"? - if the river is an A,K,T,or 9, or even a blank, what is your plan?....

[/ QUOTE ]

You make good points re: pre-flop, but I'll just stress again that I don't think this guy was especially tough, and I felt like he was starting to get out of hand with his reraising pre-flop at the point that he made this one.

After his turn bet, I did not think he was bluffing, but I thought that I could beat the majority of hands he would bet there. Problem was, I didn't think he'd bet the river with the ones I could beat, but I wasn't sure enough about that to fold to another 2/3 pot bet or so. Check-raising the turn all-in would've folded out AK for sure, and probably AA, IMO.

I would've probably check-folded to most of the scary cards I mentioned. Given my read, I should've bet less on the river.

[aba20]

Playing QJs out of position for 1/20th of your stack is not going to be profitable. Also you still have the original opener to worry about and he may wake up with a real hand, or may be stupid enough to shove AK/AQ/TT/JJ here. Suited connectors need position and opponents who you have good control over to be profitable. You have niether in this case. I would much rather cold call here with a small or medium pair.