Canadian (Socialized) Health Care

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
It's really quite sad how most younger Canadians have never heard of Tommy Douglas. He is never mentioned in our school system here, I had never heard of him growing up. And yet he was voted the greatest Canadian to have ever lived. And he most definitely is. Tommy Douglas is a big part of why this country is as great as it is. He was responsible not only for socialized health care, but for a left turn in politics in general. His NDP is still fighting the leftist fight today, stronger than ever, the voice of the nation's proletariat for almost half a century.

I am not an NDP supporter (card carrying Liberal), but I believe a strong NDP presence is vital for the success of this country. And I am also proud to say I live in an NDP riding, which ironically is one of the most affluent ridings in the country. I'd much rather my riding go to the leftist conscious than the neo-con "god bless canada/nelson mandela is a terrorist" retards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you responded to any of the criticisms posed at your OP?

Also, why do you think the two options in life are NDP and neoconservatism?

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
But the number of patients remain constant, any doctors taken away from the public service will also take patients with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

False. Demand in public sector will ALWAYS be sky high since the model is "charge everyone in advance, tell them they are allowed to recoup as much as possible by consuming services". In private health care, the feedback of consumption to fees and/or insurance rates naturally limits demand with cost. Even if you have a parallel private system, participants in the public system are still incentived to get whatever they can out of it.

[ QUOTE ]
I know nothing of the CMA and its limits, but there are a lot of qualified doctors coming from developing nations. Even public sector pay will look like a goldmine to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the CMA dramatically limits the portability of qualifications from other countries. The fact that you think they're qualified isnt' good enough for the CMA.

[evank15]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's really quite sad how most younger Canadians have never heard of Tommy Douglas. He is never mentioned in our school system here, I had never heard of him growing up. And yet he was voted the greatest Canadian to have ever lived. And he most definitely is. Tommy Douglas is a big part of why this country is as great as it is. He was responsible not only for socialized health care, but for a left turn in politics in general. His NDP is still fighting the leftist fight today, stronger than ever, the voice of the nation's proletariat for almost half a century.

I am not an NDP supporter (card carrying Liberal), but I believe a strong NDP presence is vital for the success of this country. And I am also proud to say I live in an NDP riding, which ironically is one of the most affluent ridings in the country. I'd much rather my riding go to the leftist conscious than the neo-con "god bless canada/nelson mandela is a terrorist" retards.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you responded to any of the criticisms posed at your OP?

Also, why do you think the two options in life are NDP and neoconservatism?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not here to argue the merits of the health care system. I'm merely pointing out, that for all flak it takes in this country, it served me well. That is all.

As for your second point, I think you need to read the quoted post again...something about being a card carrying liberal...

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not here to argue the merits of the health care system. I'm merely pointing out, that for all flak it takes in this country, it served me well. That is all.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't really understand this. If you don't think you're individual experience is relevant to assessing the merits of the system as a whole, then how does it relate at all the amount of "flak" the system receives?

[evank15]

That's not what I'm saying.

You're saying my lack of argument implies no relevance. This is not true. I'm just choosing not to argue this right now because it's regurgitated so often and I don't feel like it.

But don't mistake my laziness for irrelevance.

[SNOWBALL]

[ QUOTE ]

Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply

C-? i liked it, B+

[/ QUOTE ]

the talking pony easily swings it up to an A- and I liked the OP.
Nonetheless, I like the OP. I'm sick of everyone saying "omg socialized health care. You will have to be on a six month waiting list to have your gunshot wound treated!!!!eleven1111"

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
That's not what I'm saying.

You're saying my lack of argument implies no relevance. This is not true. I'm just choosing not to argue this right now because it's regurgitated so often and I don't feel like it.

But don't mistake my laziness for irrelevance.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh, got it. Well, to conclude I don't think your personal satisfaction with your personal experience means much in the big picture. No one is claiming that universal health care leads to universal dissatisfaction, so an observation on one person's satisfaction means nothing.

[FooSH]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But the number of patients remain constant, any doctors taken away from the public service will also take patients with them.

[/ QUOTE ]

False. Demand in public sector will ALWAYS be sky high since the model is "charge everyone in advance, tell them they are allowed to recoup as much as possible by consuming services". In private health care, the feedback of consumption to fees and/or insurance rates naturally limits demand with cost. Even if you have a parallel private system, participants in the public system are still incentived to get whatever they can out of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you saying people make up medical conditions? I know hypochondria exists, but I've worked in both the public and private sectors (in the UK), and they both seem to have their equal share of timewasters. If anything, private is worse as they feel they should have special attention and are often sent for unnessecary tests simply because they have paid for them.

On the other hand, small complaints can often turn into big, hard to treat ones. When patent know they can see a doctor with no up-front cost, things can be caught earlier saving money on expensive treatments later not to mention the lives that are saved.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I know nothing of the CMA and its limits, but there are a lot of qualified doctors coming from developing nations. Even public sector pay will look like a goldmine to them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the CMA dramatically limits the portability of qualifications from other countries. The fact that you think they're qualified isnt' good enough for the CMA.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there are no overseas doctors at all?

I think we can both agree that totally socalised healthcare (no private at all) sucks, I still can't see any reason why a 2 tier system is not superior in every way.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying people make up medical conditions?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, but people certainly will tolerate mild medical conditions if they incur a cost themselves that they would not tolerate when they can pass on the cost to others.

[ QUOTE ]
I know hypochondria exists, but I've worked in both the public and private sectors (in the UK), and they both seem to have their equal share of timewasters. If anything, private is worse as they feel they should have special attention and are often sent for unnessecary tests simply because they have paid for them.

[/ QUOTE ]

"They feel they should have special attention and are often sent for unnessecary tests simply because they have paid for them" is a condition associated with public care, not private care.

[ QUOTE ]
On the other hand, small complaints can often turn into big, hard to treat ones. When patent know they can see a doctor with no up-front cost, things can be caught earlier saving money on expensive treatments later not to mention the lives that are saved.

[/ QUOTE ]

Preventive care is not the exclusive domain of public health care. Certainly, some people will have a terminal disease identified under public health care that they wouldn't under private health care. Great. But this is not the end of the story. The choice of public vs. private results in all sorts of different costs and benefits. Pointing out a benefit of public health without pointing out the associated cost gets us no closer to arriving at the best net system. I can equivalently observe that some people waiting for public health care service will die when they otherwise could have gone to a private clinic.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Actually, the CMA dramatically limits the portability of qualifications from other countries. The fact that you think they're qualified isnt' good enough for the CMA.

[/ QUOTE ]

So there are no overseas doctors at all?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know what you're talking about here. I'm telling you that the CMA doesn't allow many foreign qualified doctors to operate in Canada. How does this imply that they don't exist?

[ QUOTE ]
I think we can both agree that totally socalised healthcare (no private at all) sucks, I still can't see any reason why a 2 tier system is not superior in every way.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're in the tier that pays for both your own private care and other people's public care it sure isn't superior to paying your own only.

[RebelRebel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Edit post Edit Reply to this post Reply Reply to this post Quote Quick Reply Quick Reply

C-? i liked it, B+

[/ QUOTE ]

the talking pony easily swings it up to an A- and I liked the OP.
Nonetheless, I like the OP. I'm sick of everyone saying "omg socialized health care. You will have to be on a six month waiting list to have your gunshot wound treated!!!!eleven1111"


[/ QUOTE ]

Only six months huh? Wow, I thought it would be longer. I've decided to reconsider giving the government total social control.