LOTR: Return of the King (GAME THREAD)

[LuckayLuck]

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Even with all those tweaks, village should be like a 6 to 9 point favorite.

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[LuckayLuck]

Okay, my brain fizzled for a while and I thought that the oliphant -2 votes thing could actually be a disadvantage to the evils (because if the oliphant leads slightly, then he is revealed when the 2nd bandwagon gets lynched anyways)

actually, this was true, and clown was lynched because of it. But then again, clown would have been lynched first if that hadn't occured. Okay, we can put the oliphant at like a 4.5

[lastchance]

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I feel like a brat in saying this. I will preclude it by saying that I feel like this game was well-moderated and run. My write-up was the best I've ever seen. However, in the interests of future balance and etc, I feel like I have to just mention that I thought this game was strongly skewed towards the village. I'd also be interested in a heated debate about this. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

(Blah blah blah meow-chow Luckay's strange equations turn out a 36.5 > 24.5 point based for good vs evil).

Gandalf: 5
Aragorn: 4
Frodo: 5
Sam: 3
Merry: 2
Eowyn: 2.5
Pippin: 2
King Theoden: 1
10 Village: 10
34.5 (note that the huge number of claimable roles tilts it strongly toward village)

Gollum: 0 (Note: this is generous, because Gollum knew who Sam & Frodo were and had a strong interest in protecting both)

Sauron: 6
Denethor: 6
Witch-King: 5
Oliphant-Rider: 5
Mouth of Sauron: 3
Nazgul: 4
29

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Claimable roles without powers are still hugely important for the village, and once you kill Frodo/Sam, village generally won't need extra peeks anyway.

Yeah, pretty sure that village has the edge in this one (maybe not as big as luckay had it, but still huge).

[LuckayLuck]

Optimal play for Frodo / Sam here is actually to not claim or leave peeks at all and not even be able to seer hunted at all. Only when one of the seers effectively "randomly" dies or randomly gest bandwagoned should they claim. Frodo is actually probably worth more than the 5 points I gave him, as is Sam

[lastchance]

That looks about right.

If I ran this game, I would've given Gandalf double-vote instead of seering, and I think that would still be village balanced (though less so, obviously).

And yes, good wolves can level, but really, mouth of sauron is worth less than a normal wolf (and it's not close).

[lastchance]

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Optimal play for Frodo / Sam here is actually to not claim or leave peeks at all and not even be able to seer hunted at all. Only when one of the seers effectively "randomly" dies or randomly gest bandwagoned should they claim. Frodo is actually probably worth more than the 5 points I gave him, as is Sam

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This is probably true. Combined, they're probably worth 12 or 13 points.

If village doesn't lynch all of their power roles, they run this game in a walk.

[FCBLComish]

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good job guys

man, why do I always think chuckles is evil?

and fcbl, if you were starting to believe me, then why didnt you save me? [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]

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I was AFK when I had to change the vote. Sorry Bram.

Sighing, excellent trilogy of games, thanks for running them!

[chuckleslovakian]

hey, next time talk about the balance of the game before it starts, not after

[sighing]

Theoden's value only appears after Day 7, basically. He needs to survive to lose his weakness.

As I mentioned to a couple of people by PM, the ring unmaking was NOT supposed to be easy. Frodo/Sam/etc would have to specifically be trying to accomplish that to have a shot at it at all. The death of a power-wolf is a big reward.

Best case strategy (I think): Frodo comes out on D4 with three peeks, and includes Sam, but names him as Gollum. Nobody has incentive to kill Gollum once he's outted, and the real Gollum won't counterclaim. Wolves kill Frodo N4, and then Sauron's peek-o-meter starts over on N5. By N7, Sam is almost certainly still alive. Obviously Gollum can't be outted for this to work [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

(Gollum was another "leveling" role, where he has to avoid giving the wolves information while protecting the ring-bearer at the same time.. if Gollum comes out, he has a much harder job, though he won't be killed by anyone)

[lastchance]

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hey, next time talk about the balance of the game before it starts, not after

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There's a reason I didn't sign up for this game. :P