QQ preflop. Is folding +EV?

geoncic · #1 08-07-2007, 07:27 PM

I'm sorry for the multiple posts, but I seriously am not sure about some of these hands. I really appreciate people's response and opinions. Thanks for all the help.

Assume no reads. What would you have done? CO still has to act behind me, it was a tough fold. I put him on AA, KK, AK. I'm only slightly ahead of AK, so I'm thinking it was the right move.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: 2+2 Forums)

SB ($29.90)
BB ($9.85)
UTG ($4.65)
Hero ($8.75)
CO ($7.95)
Button ($13.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.4, CO calls $0.40, Button raises to $1.75, 2 folds, Hero folds, CO folds.

Final Pot: $1.35

JuicyBones · #2 08-07-2007, 07:29 PM

Call and push any non-A/K flop is what I want to do. Maybe push pre. Depends on how loose/tight villain is. Pretty sure no matter what you do, folding is very bad.

Restlys · #3 08-07-2007, 07:31 PM

well, at best your 50 50 , at worst your 3.6 to 1 underdog, so your obv playing this hand to stack villain

now villain has 7 times his raise making the call +ev but your not fully stacked making the call -ev, always reload.
sounds simple but the times your 50 50 is the times villain has AK AQS then your good when he has JJ TT( your raising from LP and he has position on you...so i expect him to have an interesting range) unless you have a read that hes a tight player, which you do not.

jack492505 · #4 08-07-2007, 07:33 PM

Without a read, I don't think you can put villain on KK+, AK. I'm not sure whether I push PF or call and push any non A, K flop, I guess that depends on villain. Without reads I think I push at 10nl.

geoncic · #5 08-07-2007, 07:36 PM

do you really think the average villain 3-bets that range? I don't notice it all that often.

reidardahlen · #6 08-07-2007, 07:44 PM

You have no reads. Often, Villain has a hand lika QQ+ here. If, however, he´s 3betting light, you´re sure to find out after a number of hands, so, pick your spots. And, folding always has 0 EV

Poker monkey · #7 08-07-2007, 07:45 PM

Depends on Villain's stats. At 10NL people are pretty nitty in their re-raising range, but you nearly have the odds to call for set value, and if he indeed has AA/KK you'll stack him if you hit. There's a good possibility he's on AK so your best bet is to see a flop. If an Ace or King flops, you can get away cheaply. Otherwise, if the CO stays in, I like leading the flop. You could also check-call, and fold to a significant turn bet.

As you play higher stakes, you'll find people re-raising light and making squeeze plays from late position, and in this case you're usually better off re-raising pre-flop with a hand as strong as QQ. A big re-raise from the blinds is more likely to be trouble, but you always have position, which is an advantage.

jack492505 · #8 08-07-2007, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
do you really think the average villain 3-bets that range? I don't notice it all that often.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dunno maybe I've just been super lucky to find all the retard over-aggro preflop villains. But everytime I want to fold in a spot like this they show up with 1010. It's probably pretty close, I don't mind a fold without anyway reads that he's a maniac.

jessyj07 · #9 08-07-2007, 07:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
There's a good possibility he's on AK so your best bet is to see a flop.

[/ QUOTE ]and you base this solely on the fact AK is more likely than AA/KK? I only mention because an unknown at this level will show up with a much bigger range.

Poker monkey · #10 08-07-2007, 07:57 PM

Well, there are 16 combinations AK and 6 of AA and 6 of KK, so AK is 33% more common than AA/KK combined. On the other hand, AK won't always re-raise here.

It's ages since I played 10NL but I vaguely remember I used to get excited and felt hands like this pre-flop (even at full ring) and have reasonable success, just because people will call you with less than AA/KK. I certainly wouldn't fault a 4-bet here. And no, I don't think I've ever seen any professional player fold this hand pre-flop to a single re-raise. The pre-flop decisions are usually the less important ones. If you had a read that the guy only raised 3% of the time, you could fold happily, but not versus an unknown.