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#31
04-10-2007, 10:57 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. 
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#32
04-10-2007, 11:00 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. This is retarded. [/ QUOTE ] *cries* cuz they has a monopoly on force....as though anyone who's stronger than another doesn't have "a monopoly on force"
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#33
04-10-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. This is retarded. [/ QUOTE ] Stop being a jackass. You started *your* hypothetical with a given (that everyone agrees they don't need government anymore) and then act like people who don't act in a certain way *when that given is not actually in place* are somehow being inconsistent or somehow revealing some weakness in their arguments. Are you really claiming that you can't understand how it would be much easier to "defend yourself from the goverment" if everyone agreed with you that the government was illegitimate? Come on.
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#34
04-10-2007, 11:07 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. This is retarded. [/ QUOTE ] Because they're funded by 300 million other Americans that believe that the system has legitmacy, something no institution similar to a state would have in a stateless libertarian society? Just think about it a sec and you might realize why it's not stupid.
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#35
04-10-2007, 11:10 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
Stop being a jackass. You started *your* hypothetical with a given (that everyone agrees they don't need government anymore) and then act like people who don't act in a certain way *when that given is not actually in place* are somehow being inconsistent or somehow revealing some weakness in their arguments. Are you really claiming that you can't understand how it would be much easier to "defend yourself from the goverment" if everyone agreed with you that the government was illegitimate? Come on. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? I said people want to move to AC. I: a) Did not say everyone, although I see how this is implied. I just meant "we" as in "collectively we generally move in this direction". b) Did not say everyone wants to get rid of coercion all together. I guess if we are allowed to create a fairy tale world in which that is the case all problems are solved.
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#36
04-10-2007, 11:11 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. This is retarded. [/ QUOTE ] Because they're funded by 300 million other Americans that believe that the system has legitmacy, something no institution similar to a state would have in a stateless libertarian society? Just think about it a sec and you might realize why it's not stupid. [/ QUOTE ] So in AC people voluntarily give money to some organization to protect them. This is somehow just completely different and ensures no coercion whatsoever because ________. Fill in the blank please.
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#37
04-10-2007, 11:13 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Your hypothetical begins with a given population that wants to get rid of government. They will have the will to say "no" to the biggest collection of coercive force ever assembled. This is your starting assumption. Now, they're just going to roll over for some neighborhood gang? Any force assembled that is powerful enough to conquer these people would be more than enough to conquer the state that was in place before. [/ QUOTE ] Again, the world is continuous. It is in flux. It's not like it just hops from state to state. You haven't even described what sort of revolution/overthrow of government, and yet you seem to imply that it automatically prevents anyone else, in any region anywhere, from coercing people. Absurd, IMO. [/ QUOTE ] Yes, that is absurd. Did you read the rest of the post? Oh, right. [ QUOTE ] basically I'm lazy. [/ QUOTE ] The only way you're going to conquer such a group of people is by assembling *at least* as much force (and almost certainly *considerably more*) as would be necessary to conquer any state that included those people before. There is no magical absolute protection from coercion. The Death Star blows up an AC Earth just as easily as a statist Earth.
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#38
04-10-2007, 11:15 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Stop being a jackass. You started *your* hypothetical with a given (that everyone agrees they don't need government anymore) and then act like people who don't act in a certain way *when that given is not actually in place* are somehow being inconsistent or somehow revealing some weakness in their arguments. Are you really claiming that you can't understand how it would be much easier to "defend yourself from the goverment" if everyone agreed with you that the government was illegitimate? Come on. [/ QUOTE ] WTF? I said people want to move to AC. I: a) Did not say everyone, although I see how this is implied. I just meant "we" as in "collectively we generally move in this direction". b) Did not say everyone wants to get rid of coercion all together. I guess if we are allowed to create a fairy tale world in which that is the case all problems are solved. [/ QUOTE ] What does (b) have to do with (a)? In fact, what does (b) have to do with anything anybody said? Thread synopsis: You make a hypothetical, people respond based on YOUR hypothetical, you call them retarded for stating things that depend on YOUR hypothetical because they don't act that way in the real world where YOUR hypothetical doesn't hold. Grow up.
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#39
04-10-2007, 11:17 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] How exactly are we to stop some group from having the same control over people that governments tend to now? [/ QUOTE ] By defending yourself. [/ QUOTE ] Why don't you defend yourself from the government then. This is retarded. [/ QUOTE ] Because they're funded by 300 million other Americans that believe that the system has legitmacy, something no institution similar to a state would have in a stateless libertarian society? Just think about it a sec and you might realize why it's not stupid. [/ QUOTE ] So in AC people voluntarily give money to some organization to protect them. This is somehow just completely different and ensures no coercion whatsoever because there is no monopoly of such organizations, and bad ones are not patronized and fail, just like any other business. Fill in the blank please. [/ QUOTE ] Where's my prize?
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#40
04-10-2007, 11:19 PM
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Re: AC and power
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] So you are virtuous and like to forcibly interfere with others who are doing you or others no harm, but you see other systems where people do not forcibly interfere with each other or harm each other as inferior? [/ QUOTE ] Well I think libertarians in general horribly misunderstand how one can "harm others or themselves". I've started threads on this before, I really don't know why I bother anymore because it seems like this is going nowhere. [/ QUOTE ] So you want people with guns to teach us and make sure we go along with the program, huh? Sounds like you are going to be one of 'the gang' that ac'ers need to worry about trying to take over in your OP example.
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