Should I Quit Poker for Good? Help..

[hasanthadon]

I'm an incoming sophomore in college, and I first started playing poker during my freshman year. The first time I played , a very casual dorm room game, i lost 5 bucks. Then i broke even. 3rd game I won 1st place, got like 35 bucks. By this time I felt I had potential to be a good poker player.

Then my friend introduced me to online poker. He told me how he turned 100 into 1200 over a couple years... but how important it is to "be a student of the game" by reading books and forums. I figured if he could do it, I could do it...so I made my first 75 dollar deposit into fulltilt...

As the weeks went by, I started blowing my paychecks on more and more 50 dollar deposits. For a brief period of time, I was a successful player. At one point, I was down to $1 in my bankroll... played a $1 tournament with like hundreds of people, and got 3rd place. Won $96, and eventually turned that into over $200. I had no idea what the [censored] BR management meant at this point, and ended up going bust within a week.

I played at a charity game. My first experience at a "casino", i bought $50 worth of chips...played extremely tight, extremely smart...at a $1/$2 NL cash game... turned it into $200. took a break, got some food... i was exhausted because i was on 0 sleep.... got greedy, came back to play some more... ended up going bust.


Went to another one of these charity games the other day. Lost $70.

What's worse...the online poker habit interfered with my grades at school. Spring Quarter i got the worst grades ive ever had at college, significantly bringing down my GPA. there were numerous nights where i tried studying for tests and playing poker at the same time... and i did terribly on those exams.

After losing another $50 deposit recently, i decided to take a month-long break from poker, and to study the game in the meantime by reading books (ive read HOH1 and 2, and im in the middle of Thoery of Poker)... when I read these books I take notes on them, like I'm studying a subject for school. I've learned a lot from these books, but unfortunately it hasn't helped my winnings.

However, 5 days into my break from poker... I get an e-mail saying I got a $75 bonus from FullTilt (because I complained a while about about their Refer a Friend promotion not working right) and that I have 2 weeks to earn it. Immediately, I borrowed 150 from my ex-gf... figuring that I would play with smart BR management this time (took notes on Chris Ferguson's BR management rules) and try to at least earn the $75 bonus.

That way two days ago. Right now, I'm left with $9 in my account. I am such a COMPULSIVE player sometimes, its unbelievable. Last night I blew 30 dollars in going all in and calling all ins, in frustration after a few bad beats. I will make the most RETARDED calls, I will call when i KNOW im beat, if i have a good hand like AK or KK but i know im beat i will NOT fold... I definitely feel like im becoming a compulsive gambler, and i do have an addictive personality (weed, sex, caffeine, now gambling)

BUT... at the same time... I'm an economics major, I love math.. I would argue that I'm an intelligent person, an analytical thinker, that im good with numbers... I'm very motivated, I'm willing to study the game, Ive been reading twoplustwo.com forums a lot, Ive been reading articles... i feel like i have potential to be a winning player... but my compulsiveness and hardcore tilt is the biggest obstacle in my way.

Right now Im overall down at least $800 in poker, online and real life. I'm playing with this last $9 extremely tightly... and im really upset that i wont be able to make this limited 2 week $75 bonus. What's worse is that this monday I start a job in Chicago... I'll be making a good amount for an 18 year old, and i will be VERY tempted to deposit more into fulltilt.

So what do I do? I know the obvious answer seems "STOP PLAYING POKER YOU LOSER" but for someone who is truly intrigued with the game, who has the patience, motivation, and brains to study and learn the art and science of the game...despite compulsive urges which CAN be tamed (just not sure what it takes to tame them) is there really no option but to quit for good?

I'm so motivated and driven to make back my money. It angers me that I'm losing to a game, that I'm losing to a bunch of hustlers when I've proven to be a true hustler in life... I'm extremely dedicated to mastering this game and making my money back AND more... but now that I'm $800+ in the hole... I'm wondering if im just digging myself into a deeper grave.

I know this was a REALLY long post. But this is a seriously problem for me these days and if someone could help me out id really appreciate it.

thanks

[syncmaster]

Keep playing if you enjoy it, but only spend what you can afford to lose. Treat it like a hobby, and spend ur $ accordingly. But if the game pisses you off all the time, are you going to keep playing and lose on top of it? Figure out how much you enjoy it and again only spend what you can afford to lose.


Do this, and in a few months you might be winning and not ever spend a dime again. Keep following those bankroll rules you went by no matter what, I do 20 Full Buy-ins for the level (NL Fullring). If you do 6 max maybe 30.

[rory]

To win at poker you have to be honest with yourself and you are obviously not.

If you were intrigued by the game you would be satisfied learning how to win by playing micro-stakes. I learned playing .04/.08 limit poker. My $50 lasted forever. They have .01/.02 NL tables everywhere-- how about playing those if you are so intrigued with the "art and science" of the game but are also broke? How about play money? I did that too.

[ QUOTE ]
BUT... at the same time... I'm an economics major, I love math.. I would argue that I'm an intelligent person, an analytical thinker, that im good with numbers... I'm very motivated, I'm willing to study the game, Ive been reading twoplustwo.com forums a lot, Ive been reading articles... i feel like i have potential to be a winning player... but my compulsiveness and hardcore tilt is the biggest obstacle in my way.

[/ QUOTE ]

Okay you are an econ major, big deal. You are actually an econ major not doing well at it only two years in because of poker, which means you being an econ major means nothing. How much poker math is there anyway? 8th grade probability. That's about it. Being good at math doesn't help you very much as long as you have the basics covered. You don't magically have potential other people don't.

Do you think anyone goes into poker going, "Hey I suck, I think I'll blow my money." Everyone thinks they have potential for some reason. They have like one out of the list of major things you need to be good at to consistently win and latch onto it as why they are good. Most people wind up losing because it doesn't matter if you are good at math if you also can't control yourself. It doesn't matter if you have zen-like control of yourself if you don't know when to stick your money in and when not to. It's no good knowing the right play if you can't make yourself do it. Over and over again on here people are like "I'm a good player but I have this major flaw X that makes me lose." No, you are a bad player because of major flaw X.

You have massive tilt issues and can't control yourself at all. Guess what? You can deposit $50 all you want and read all the 2+2 forums you want. You will never win. You might run it up for a while but you will give it all back. Every time.

Since you are an economics major, apply some of those risk-reward analyses to your life. Right now you are risking your education on a game you are losing other people's money to and you are lying to yourself about why you are playing the game.

If you want to dedicate yourself to something, dedicate yourself to your school work so when you finally quit poker (hopefully) you have your education all set for you and you can laugh about it later, shake your head and go cash your paycheck.

Also, for everyone else who plays and like talk about it with their friends like they are big shots, look what happens. This guy had a friend who won some money, talked it all up like hey you can win too no problem and now this guy has to figure out how to force himself to quit. That sucks.

[Al Mirpuri]

From your history, it is clear that you cannot 'quit' poker. So the real question is how do you manage your losses or stop them completely? Practise game selection there is no profit to be made from challenging good player, challenge poor players. If you 'know' you are beat then make a big laydown. Learn to get satisfaction from making correct decisions. Correct decisions save money on losing hands and earn money on winning hands.

Poker is not Contract Bridge, there is no intricate cardplay. It is all about discipline, selective aggression, judgment, things that take time to master. Child prodigies occur in chess but poker as of yet has not produced one nor will it.

Johnny Chan played $1/$2 poker and today he is a superstar so don't begrudge the fact that you got to learn the ropes. Larry Holmes was Muhammad Ali's sparring partner and in time, with time, he got to be heavyweight champion of the world in his own right. Pay your dues. Take your time. Enjoy the game.

[hasanthadon]

im a little confused with the mixed responses... one person saying i should quit for good the other two saying i need to learn/practice the skills in order to get better.

i must disagree with some parts of rory's emphatic post. first of all, u said its a mistake that im playing .05/.10 games and that is idiotic of me... well those are the lowest stakes on FullTilt, and i have a Mac so i cant play the .01/.02 games on PokerStars, so i dont know what you expect me to do about that. also, you claim that im not honest with myself? if i wasnt honestly with myself how could i admit that im on my way to becoming (if not already am) a compulsive gambler. nor would I admit that poker interfered with my schoolwork. its unfair of you to say that i have bad motives or being dishonest with myself, because i just dont see that. however, i do respect your advice to stop poker and focus on school instead.

and to the post above me (Al Mirpuri), I like what you have to say, but you said that "judging by my history" i cant quit poker. well, my history consists of like three months of playing poker... i do believe its something i can stop once i see so much loss... and if i had lost that final 150 deposit, making it a total loss of around 850, i would have stopped. would i have stopped for good? I dont know. would i have stopped for a considerable amount of time in order to read books and study the game more? definitely.

when i posted last nite i had 9 dollars left... like i said ive been playing very tight poker, making the correct laydowns, playing smart... and getting lucky at times, of course... and now im up to 50. i will continue playing with this money... hopefully continuing to play smart and repress my emotions and compulsiveness, we'll see where it gets me.

thanks for your advice. id appreciate anything else you guys have to say

[JackAll]

[ QUOTE ]
5 days into my break from poker... I get an e-mail saying I got a $75 bonus from FullTilt (because I complained a while about about their Refer a Friend promotion not working right) and that I have 2 weeks to earn it. Immediately, I borrowed 150 from my ex-gf... figuring that I would play with smart BR management this time (took notes on Chris Ferguson's BR management rules) and try to at least earn the $75 bonus.

That way two days ago. Right now, I'm left with $9 in my account. I am such a COMPULSIVE player sometimes, its unbelievable. Last night I blew 30 dollars in going all in and calling all ins, in frustration after a few bad beats. I will make the most RETARDED calls, I will call when i KNOW im beat, if i have a good hand like AK or KK but i know im beat i will NOT fold... I definitely feel like im becoming a compulsive gambler, and i do have an addictive personality (weed, sex, caffeine, now gambling)

[/ QUOTE ]

Wake up. You are becoming a f*cking addict. This will really f*ck up your god damn life.

If you really want to learn the game, play at the 5c/10c tables. Then move up when you are a solid winner over 50,000 hands.

Otherwise just give it up or you will end up like this guy this guy

[Tiger_Kid]

I agree on some level with every post here.
I have had very similar problems.

I suggest you take a week off to clear your head and to get back into this with a positive attitude.

If you're ever going to play seriously, you have to structure it so you are never playing with enough that if you lost you couldn't just shrug and walk away. That means if you lose this $50, you go back to work, pay off your debts, save up some money and then think about maybe playing again.

If and when you go back to playing, if you have even the slightest doubt in your mind that you cannot stay disciplined and work with a set of rules that leaves you playing with money you can afford to lose, at stakes where you can't lose it more than 5% at a time, then you should not play, under any circumstances, because if you do you will end up putting more money into than you can afford to and it will tear your life apart.

I suggest you take a week off either way.

Your goal is not to make money. Your goal is to preserve your bankroll through 10,000 hands, and to win consistantly for another 50,000. If you're playing break-even poker you are in a good spot, especially for a beginner. Read books. Ace on the River (Greenstein) and Theory of Poker (David Sklansky) are both great books.

You cannot judge your success based on money results. You judge it by your ability to stay out of trouble and to develop all the skills needed to be a good poker player. If you're playing to make money, to pay off debts, or because you "need an escape" then you will never win and you should consider closing your account and asking friends to keep an eye on you.

Any time you start to feel satisfied with your results, you need to take a step back and take a real good look at your game. No one will ever be a perfect poker player. The moment you start to fancy yourself a glory player, you need to figure out where you're [censored] up and how you can fix it.

When you are financially secure, invest in Poker Tracker and Poker Ace HUD. Learn to use them well, because they are invaluable tools when playing online.

Another thing, about playing online: Don't try anything fancy, ever. If you're taking a stab in the dark, you are liable to get yourself in trouble. Protect that bankroll at all costs, because failure to do so is just a slippery slope to investing more than you can afford. That means for a while you're going to try to keep your VP$IP down to 20%. That means playing only premium hands for a raise, and occasionally trying to get in cheap with suited connectors and small pairs when there are 3 or more limpers already in, and you have no reason to expect a raise from behind. If you're going to play, you're going to play for no other reason than to learn to play very, very well. That means you should be comfortable playing at the LOWEST limits available. Never put more than 1% into a tournament, and never more than 2.5% into any cash game.

What you need to realize is that it's all in the approach. You approach the game with a positive attitude, and with the intention of learning as much as you can from your opponents.
Approach each hand with careful consideration of your opponents, what you know about them. If you know nothing, then be very, very careful not to get into a position where you have to make a tough decision.
You have to be meticulous, patient, and financially secure.

You will lose sometimes. That is a fact. You cannot take it personally. You must learn to recognize when it is putting you off your game; when it is keeping you from viewing the game with a positive attitude. If you are constantly losing at a particular table, then change tables because the game is probably over your head.

There is no reason you should feel ashamed. We've all made mistakes. You're not in a bad spot. You can work your way out of this very easily-- but only if you're willing to play by the rules. If you find you're just digging a deeper hole, then you need to find a solution that will keep you from playing at all.

It's a mistake unless you fail to recognize what you're doing wrong and if you do not learn from it, because then it becomes a weakness. We all make mistakes, but it's our weaknesses that will destroy us.

I know that's a lot and it's very long-winded. I may be wrong on some points. Everyone is free to criticise or contradict me.

The key is attitude. Your attitude should suggest that you are humble, that you know you will do well, and that when you find you are making mistakes you are willing to do all the work it takes to figure out why and how you can improve.




"I'm a great believer in luck,
and I find the harder I work,
the more I have of it."
Thomas Jefferson

[UtzChips]

[ QUOTE ]
However, 5 days into my break from poker... I get an e-mail saying I got a $75 bonus from FullTilt (because I complained a while about about their Refer a Friend promotion not working right) and that I have 2 weeks to earn it. Immediately, I borrowed 150 from my ex-gf... figuring that I would play with smart BR management this time (took notes on Chris Ferguson's BR management rules) and try to at least earn the $75 bonus.

[/ QUOTE ]

The beauty of computer programs! Identifies the lost fish and lures them back in. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

1. I don't know of a single Pro, who will honestly say that you can start playing NL Hold Em right from the Gate, without any Limit HE experience under your belt.

2. 1-800-gambler. 90 meetings in 90 days and then make an honest decision as to whether you have the mental capacity to gamble.

Or, just answer the majority of these questions yes, and you need to find another hobby:

1. Do you agree that if poker ever becomes like work, it's time to quit?

2.When you are losing a significant amount, do you tend to play more aggressively?

3. Do you run a bluff just for advertising purposes-knowing that you have very little chance of pulling it off? Do you get an emotional rush after it fails/succeeds?

4. Are you often the big winner in the game as often as you are the big loser?

5. If you are really stuck, will you often play as long as it take to get even, or at least close to even?

6. Do you often get angry at an opponent?

7. Are you visibly upset after taking the first bad beat of the session?

8. Do you consume alcohol while playing?

9. Do you neglect priorities in your life (studying, balanced life style) so that you can use the time to play poker?

10. If you have a losing session, does it have a negative effect on the rest of your day?

11. Do you continue to play when you are tired?

12. Does a bad beat sometimes throw your game off?

13. Do you find yourself playing with a stack so low you won't be able to avoid going all-in?

14. Would you say that on your worst days you have a tendency to go on tilt?

15. Do your sessions frequently last so long that you find yourself unable to think half as clearly as you could during the first hour?

16. Do you often us profanity in the heat of anger at the table?

17. Will you always give action to players who are loose/action type players?

18. Are the "loose/action" type players the ones you usually chat with?


If so, you have a problem.

[JOEL_]

Have not read the posts,but in my experience if you have to ask then the answer is yes.

[Uglyowl]

If I were you I'd quit, get your school situation under control and revisit beginning of 2008. Don't [censored] up your school over this.