NYC poker: safety and legalization

[mikewpu04]

I work in NYC and live over the river in NJ. I've never looked for an underground club because I always worried about not just my own safety, but the chance of it being busted. Yeah, I know the drive to AC is over 2 hours, but I know walking into my favorite casino the only way I'm losing my money is bad play, NOT robbery or more likey, police seizure.

Legalization is far away I feel. Short of the family of the victim pushing for legalization on the news, I don't think anything else will get poker passed. I just never understood why OTB is alright, but poker is some mystical, illegial thing.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
TT,

Please document one case where the operators of a poker room called the police after a robbery where no one was hurt.

Please note that it must be after the robbery. Calling the cops when your life is on the line doesn't mean squat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already did. National, upper east side. Nobody was hurt, the room's operator called 911 during the robbery - DURING, you know how dangerous that is if he was caught? We can discuss this one because it was in the newspapers already, we cannot discuss the times in this forum when it wasn't mentioned in the press.

[psandman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
TT,

Please document one case where the operators of a poker room called the police after a robbery where no one was hurt.

Please note that it must be after the robbery. Calling the cops when your life is on the line doesn't mean squat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I already did. National, upper east side. Nobody was hurt, the room's operator called 911 during the robbery - DURING, you know how dangerous that is if he was caught? We can discuss this one because it was in the newspapers already, we cannot discuss the times in this forum when it wasn't mentioned in the press.

[/ QUOTE ]

He asks you to document a case where the police are called after the robbery when no one was hurt, and you say you did by listing a case where you say he called police during the robbery. Why because you think its more dangerous to call during a robbery than after (and you criticize others for making assumptions).

Here is the point. During an armed robbery you should be concerned for the life and saftey of yourself and the others in the room. therefore calling the police during a robbery is an instance where you put yourself in legal jeopardy (and in NY is relatively minor legal jeopardy) in an effort to protect your life and the lives of the players.

But after a robbery in which no one was hurt, there is no life threatening emergency any more. Calling the Police at this point and putting yourself in legal jeopardy offers you no direct benefit (yes there is the indirect benefit that if they catch the guy and he goes to prison he can't rob your game anymore )

It would seem to me that calling the police during a robbery is a no brainer anyone given teh opportunbity should do so, But calling after the fact (where there is noone hurt) is not a no-brainer. Many operators aren't going to call the police because there is a much bigger downside to calling the police than not calling the police. This is true not just of poker but all illegal activities.

[*TT*]

psandman:

You don't know enough the situation, google it for more details because there were numerous news reports - its not what you assume. Edgar was the card rooms operator, he had a rap sheet a mile long - he knew he was going to see jail time when he called the cops. Last I heard he is still in jail, he was arrested 6 or so months ago.

Since this was the only time I recall (and I could be wrong - I might not remember another time) where the robbery was mentioned in the news this is unfortunately the only example I can give in a public forum like 2+2 where millions (yes, believe it or not - millions) of people visit and read the posts (including the NY Times and ABC News who are watching these threads), unfortunately you have to take my word for it that this is the standard operating policy for most owners in Manhattan.

I spoke to the former operator of a room that was raided 2 years ago yesterday, I was there in the room when he called the police to stop a fight - ah the good old days [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[AngusThermopyle]

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this is the standard operating policy for most owners in Manhattan.



[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops after a robbery where nobody was injured?

[*TT*]

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[ QUOTE ]
this is the standard operating policy for most owners in Manhattan.



[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops after a robbery where nobody was injured?

[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops during. Remember this has happened only a handful of times, nobody - including the room operators has too much experience with robberies.

[nycbuddha]

No offense intended, but I'm not sure I see the point of this argument. Whether or not the cops are called after a robbery in which nobody has been hurt does not deeply concern me. I'm interested in safety before all that, and if I think the guys running my club have my (and their) safety front and center I'm happy. I've been to places (no longer open) where I thought safety was iffy, and I've been to places where safety was clearly a high priority. Obviously those are the ones I went back to.

[redfisher]

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To call the cops during. Remember this has happened only a handful of times, nobody - including the room operators has too much experience with robberies.

[/ QUOTE ]

Count your blessings. I've always been confused that these NYC threads seem to be totally focused on the cops busting the game. The big fear around here is that the bad guys stick up the game. Please note the general tendency to never call the cops unless the robbery is still in progress in areas where poker is somewhat to totally illegal.

A thread you started

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...page=0&vc=1

Two related incidents in SC

http://www.upforanything.net/poker/archives/002220.html

A general search on poker robberies

http://www.google.com/search?q=poker+rob...amp;startPage=1

[psandman]

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this is the standard operating policy for most owners in Manhattan.



[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops after a robbery where nobody was injured?

[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops during. Remember this has happened only a handful of times, nobody - including the room operators has too much experience with robberies.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I'm not disagreeing with about that they would call the police during a robbery if they could. That scenario makes sense. getting arrested for the relatively small offenses involved here is much less severe then getting shot. No question.

Thats not the point we were making. And I'm not really sure why you don't see the difference between the two scenarios.

And robberies at underground clubs are not that rare. They aren't everyday experiences, but even in upstate NY I knew of several robberies, and heard first hand accounts of robberies going back many many years.

[*TT*]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
this is the standard operating policy for most owners in Manhattan.



[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops after a robbery where nobody was injured?

[/ QUOTE ]

To call the cops during. Remember this has happened only a handful of times, nobody - including the room operators has too much experience with robberies.

[/ QUOTE ]

But I'm not disagreeing with about that they would call the police during a robbery if they could. That scenario makes sense. getting arrested for the relatively small offenses involved here is much less severe then getting shot. No question.

Thats not the point we were making. And I'm not really sure why you don't see the difference between the two scenarios.

And robberies at underground clubs are not that rare. They aren't everyday experiences, but even in upstate NY I knew of several robberies, and heard first hand accounts of robberies going back many many years.

[/ QUOTE ]

psandman - this is a thread about NYC and NYC only. Upstate, Long Island, and home games are all different situations. i have spoken with three news outlets in 48 hours, all they are concerned with is the robberies in NY.

And yes, they are statistically rare in NYC. Two so far in 2007, thats a better record than some banks.