2/5 PLO8 Live

[Pokerbrat]

I was playing in a live 2/5 PLO8 game with about 900 in my stack, CO covers and Button has about 300. CO is a very good TAG who consistently beats the game. Button is a loose player, he will call many small bets chasing but he isn't the type of player who will call all-in just on a low draw or OESD. So, he is bad but not completely clueless.

There is a $15 raise from CO, I call from the CO with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Button calls and the blinds fold.

Flop: 4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (Pot=$52)

CO fires out $30. Of course I am at least calling. Should I raise here to try to take it down or do I just call? I am pretty sure that CO also has the A2, although I am of course not 100% certain. I also have to worry about the button behind me. What is my play?

[niss]

If you think the guy behind you has A2, he's not folding here. Bang the hand and 3/4 him. Also, get rid of the other guy (or make him pay). He could also have A2 or a spade draw. Or maybe he's got A3 and is stupid. Unlikely he has 7-8. Maybe he has 3-7, but if you need to rule out every possible hand before banging this one, then you'll never win.

[zizazziza]

How is there a raise from CO and you call from CO. Where are you in this hand and who is raising?
Do you know how the good players view you? I mean I think this is key. He made a .5psb so this could be a A2 bet or something like that. They only have $300 at the beginning of the hand.
So we have $300 - 45 = $265 left for CO and $265 left for btn if he calls.
If you call and btn folds there is $110 in the pot. If btn calls there is $140 in the pot. Other than a spade, there is no real turn card that would scare you (assuming the btn calls behind).
Either way, you can bet out on the turn and get it all in easily by the river. I think that assuming you are not an aggressive player, that this is a pull instead of a push.
(this all assumes you have position on him, but I dont understand who is where in the hand. Also, is this is a full table?)

[GaZaZaZa]

given that 3 people called a raise there is at least one a-2 out there, and it is quite likly that the CO has it, plus something else... given that the button is a moron, this is the perfect place to put in a decent raise, this could easily trap the button is he has anything semi-decent like a-2 or hopfully a-3 with some kinda two-pair/straight draw/flush draw. The other advantage of this is that the co being a good player he may fold his naked a-2 to a big raise leaving you alone with the button and hopfully taking his $300. ANd even if this makes the button fold, your hand beats the vast majority of hands that are out there so you dont even hate it if you go to war with the CO. In my opinion a decent raise here is the way to go.

[Big Dave D]

Just call. In this spot, you can try and play poker a little. If all three of you get allin, you are probably hoping for a 2 or an A. Playing a bit passive may also lead the opposition into thinking you don't have the hand you actually have. Or to put it another way, you wouldn't mind seeing the button raise and the TAG foe just calling.

gl

bdd

[tuttufin]

I totally disagree, call is the most non-profit and wrong play here. Most can't fold plain a2, and nobody is going to fold a2 with decent pair on that flop (nor a2 with flushdrwa). If you just call, you kill your value because mostly people are going to keep firing only if they hit flush and then your the one making crying calls. Cause your only cold-calling preflop with monster like A23J ss, nobody is going to put you on that hand anyways.

Raise pot.

Your freerolling the other nutlow, and giving free cards for flushdrwas is not smart. If he has a2 spades and hits, that's poker.

Also if the 3rd player has nutstr8 and is only calling your raise a turn spade will give you good scarecard to get him out of the way.

Also you have protection also if A or 2 hits, which helps you scoop sometimes.

[Big Dave D]

For some reason, I didnt see this as as being a two suited flop...I thought it was monotone. Being two suited makes it much better to be raising. However it is still an interesting play to just call and see what the idiot does. For example, if he has a3 and the flush draw he may raise. You ideally want to get him into a situation where his suspectedly worse hand is committed and calling might be the route here.

gl

bdd

[niss]

BDD,

I think you have given some of the best PLO8 advice I've read on this forum, so I am reluctant to dish out criticism directed at something you've said. So I will just say simply that I think slow playing big hands in PLO8 is a very overused strategy that in the end winds up costing players more money than it makes them. That doesn't mean that in any one particular instance a slow play might not be correct ... I don't think this instance though, with a 2-spade flop and a pre-flop raise, is correct for a slow play.

[howzit]

don't worry about the bad player behind you. they tend to:

- chase with bad draws.
- call big bets with nut one way hands that can't improve
- won't fold because they have small stacks.


make it $110 to go. this also gives you leverage against the TAG because you have position and are playing deep.

you can do whatever you want on the turn. bomb it on a blank. bluff at it on a scare card because you're repping some weird two way draw hand. check behind to maintain pot control. use your position.

also, i'd be pouncing on a TAG's bet of $30 into $52.


but seriously, we're playing for stacks here.

[zizazziza]

1st of all, this isnt online like most of you, its live, passive play is more common. 2) Just b/c he bet the flop doesnt mean he has the greatest hand ever. (3) Lets look @ our scenarios:
a) He has A2xx
b) He has A2xxss
c) He has A3xxss
d) He has A278

With (a) against a solid player, he folds to our r/r
b) He will 3b us ai probably.
c) He may 3b or may call and fold missed turn.
d) He is 3b us ai probably

So we now have 4 different situations where he would always get a call and maybe a fire in on the turn. Now lets look at these same situations on the turn if we call the flop.
a) He MAY fire out on turn. He could c/c turn and possibly river. We lose value against an A and a 2
b) He probably bet/3b ai here.
c) Possibly bet/calling or bet/3b ai
d) He is bet/3b

You see the range of hands that you can still get it easily ai on turn or river, he may even fire out a bluff or something one the turn. Or you can be getting (b) in a much worse scenario if it doesnt come on the turn.