At Work: Women Against Women

[MrMon]

This was brought up in another thread a few weeks ago but never really got started, and I'd like to make it a bit more generic than the original question. Why is it that often that in professional environments, the biggest impediments to women at work are other women? Sure, there is the usual crap women have to put up with from men, not to mention that especially among some older men, the really prefer to work with just other guys, but you would think that women would be sympathetic to other women about advancing in their career.

My wife is an attorney in a BigLaw firm, and several times in her career, she has run into Black Widows or Alpha Female Wolves who feel the need to absolutely destroy every other female in their group, or at least have them submissive to them. They don't do this to men, but they absolutely do this to all other women. If this type enters a group and there is a senior woman, they will also do their best to drive that woman out. Is this basic biology? Are they even aware they are doing it? Why does this occur? I'm looking for some ideas here, as well as other observations of this sort of behavior.

My wife is pretty immune to this type of behavior, having dealt with it earlier in her career, but since she's now older, younger attorneys seek her out about how to deal with these types. Her advice has been to fight back and don't accept it, because this sort of bully usually backs down, but when they're in a position of power, they can do a lot of damage to you, and she has seen careers ruined for no good reason other than the fact that these women want no other women who are a threat to them around.

[guids]

I think they only do it to other women, because they can manipulate men differently, and dont need to pound them into submission. Think about your typical alpha-male type man in the same situation, does he treat his male colleagues the same as he does the women? Probably not, Id bet, and is much more harsh towards the other males around him, pounding them into submission, but treats the women with different tactics.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

I don't know the reasons, I just find it peculiar that this phenomena usually isn't discussed when there are discussions about why men earn more than women and why a large percent of CEOs are men. This is the main factor IMO, thus whenever women ask me about career advice I recommend them to work in companies where a large portion of the employees are men. I also advice them to avoid companies with many women in management. This is very un-PC, but I have seen tons of situations confirming my view and very few contradicting it. Where there i.e. is 80% women, the women end up being discriminated, not the men.

[Aloysius]

Women in corporate America subconsciously / consciously realize that there is an unspoken female quota in the upper echelon. So it only makes sense to view other women as a threat as they all compete for very few spots.

-Al

[Arnfinn Madsen]

This is not an American phenomen. It is in many different cultures.

[prohornblower]

I hate working with women, and so does my gf. I notice this behavior all the time and I don't see it nearly as much amongst men. It's pretty disgusting, really. I'm not saying men doing have disgusting habits at work. But being a man, I think I can handle the things men do at work. With some of the petty crap women pull, I almost feel like I can't even say anything about it or call it out because it's sort of an under-the-surface battle that needs to be worked out by them. I try to not get involved, and usually get a good laugh watching them destroy themselves.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
This is not an American phenomen. It is in many different cultures.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different corporate cultures? I'd think it's more pronounced in say Japan and possibly in European nations. OP seemed to address corporate America.

-Al

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is not an American phenomen. It is in many different cultures.

[/ QUOTE ]

Different corporate cultures? I'd think it's more pronounced in say Japan and possibly in European nations. OP seemed to address corporate America.

-Al

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, different corporate cultures. In many European countries the corporate culture is very different from America. I think this is a biological phenomenen since it occurs in so many different situations (also non-business), so best is to acknowledge and act accordingly.

For women: try to find an environment with mostly men.
For men: realize that most women at work are better than their reputation.

[JaredL]

I think it extends to other environments.

My wife is a speech pathologist. She was in the education school for her bachelors and masters. In her program there were something like 23 women and 2 men. She also was an English lit major as an undergrad, which is mostly females I think but not so extreme. She couldn't believe the cattyness and gossip and backstabbing stuff that the women would do in her program. It was absolutely nothing like what I dealt with in math and even economics.

[Banks2334]

MrMon,
I think women in the work place is an extention of women in social circles. Ever walk up to a group of women and start talking to one in particular? It doesn't take long before the others are vying for your attention and ready to throw their friends under the bus because they view them as "the competition" and no longer as friends. If they can't have your attention, they don't want their friends to have it either. Same in business, if they can't be top dog or in a good position, they can't stand to let someone else be top dog.