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#41
08-26-2007, 12:11 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
you're being way too rigid in putting him on a SC. you said he's a bad player, so he's capable of limping anything, sometimes suited and sometimes not. then he called your flop bet. this could be any heart he feels like calling with, any Q, any A, even a gutter. his range is so wide here and a set has him crushed. just keep building a pot. set vs flopped flush is a huge cooler, esp vs an idiot.
it is a proven fact that limidonks don't like stacking off with the nuts. just try to pay extra attention to it. being worried at this point in the hand is pretty ridiculous as for preflop, your hand is going to be a bitch to play on most turns. i'd only raise this if i have a very good idea of his flop calling tendencies so you can 2 barrel him enough 
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#43
08-26-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
Josh -
'it is a proven fact that limidonks don't like stacking off.' really? when the big limit to NL switch happened last year, I thought the limidonks were the ones getting it in with top pair all the time. victor the problem with your analysis is that villain raised exactly nowhere in this hand. there's a bit of cognitive dissonance in thinking that a call here signals a giant hand - he could be calling flop to take it away on the turn, figuring your range is weighted towards big pocket pairs that hate the ace. if you got raised here, then it'd be a question how to play - you're still probably stacking off, but when is the question.
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#45
08-26-2007, 12:42 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
[ QUOTE ]
josh, the tag is who overlimped, then called. bad fish folded pf. [/ QUOTE ] oh [censored]. i think tag is likely to raise the flop with a flush, but i agree he probably doesn't call again on the turn with worse though given preflop action. i like checking but i'm not looking to get away with the hand. i'd check to try to trap him since imo the biggest part of his range is some mediocre made hand or a float. he can't have a set, and the only 2 pair, A3, is unlikely. if you do bet and he shoves it's time to puke
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#46
08-26-2007, 12:46 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
[ QUOTE ]
Josh - 'it is a proven fact that limidonks don't like stacking off.' really? when the big limit to NL switch happened last year, I thought the limidonks were the ones getting it in with top pair all the time. [/ QUOTE ] ok how about good ones then? seems to me victor is going through exactly what i was going through when i posted all those hilarious weak tight folds last year [ QUOTE ] victor the problem with your analysis is that villain raised exactly nowhere in this hand. there's a bit of cognitive dissonance in thinking that a call here signals a giant hand - he could be calling flop to take it away on the turn, figuring your range is weighted towards big pocket pairs that hate the ace. if you got raised here, then it'd be a question how to play - you're still probably stacking off, but when is the question. [/ QUOTE ] something i haven't seen written in this thread is how the dynamic changes after he's raised from the blinds. people usually give those raises respect, since they're usually made with even a tighter range than 3-bets. so when he calls an AQ3hhh flop, i'm not sure what you're hoping he calls/raises with on the turn except A3 or a bluff. even the naked Kh is unlikely since who really overlimps preflop with KTo and [censored]?
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#48
08-26-2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
cool, josh. you echo my thoughts. i guess im not totally misguided. float, flush, or weak ace. all of which make checking better.
so i checked and he bet like 3/4 pot and i called. river was an offsuit 5 and i checked and he bet half pot which was kinda weird but whatever. he could have ax for two pair, or be trying to move me off khq or khk or an ace. i called and he had 45ss for riverd 2pair.
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#49
08-26-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
very nice thread and interesting hand.
I think a c/c is very good ( but i would never think so deep in a live hand). The hand is so complicated because most villains raise this flop to ~80%. So we have perhaps 10 preflop combinations ( 45-89s, 46s-T8s) but if he is good he never have hands like JTo or KTo in his range. Without a read that he is a good player i definitly bet because he makes way more often any stupid play than have a made flush.
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#50
08-26-2007, 05:10 PM
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Re: line for bottom set on monotone board
[ QUOTE ]
he could be calling flop to take it away on the turn, figuring your range is weighted towards big pocket pairs that hate the ace [/ QUOTE ] ok, i missed this. so if hes calling to take on the turn 2 things: 1)thats a float right? 2) isnt it better to check and let him go ahead and bluff turn?
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