SB defence range in playing 3handed

[pegboy]

[ QUOTE ]
edit: 1/2 blind structure

button is a LAG. he is raising the button about 65% of the time. he is mediocre postflop; peels too light, calls down too light, gives too much action with his hands

BB is the same kind of guy. he's going to be playing around 70% of hands.
edit: he will cap the top 10% of hands

what do you think is a good range for defending your SB playing 3 handed? how did you make this range up?
are you always 3betting?

[/ QUOTE ]

With a normal big bind I would look at the 169 possible starting hands as listed on the wall to my left. They are listed in order of heads-up strength. I’d key in at around hand #110 which is the 65% range indicated by OP. 98u, 86s, and J4 are in that range. Now I cut the buttons range in half and key in at around hand #55. This puts me in the middle of the range. JTu and K4s are in that area. If my holding is there or better I 3bet expecting dead money from most big blinds. I would not call very often if ever as the dead money is probably my long term profit?

That said the OP presents a BB who cold calls my 3 bets on a semi-regular basis. He even caps with the 20 best hands. I think it is then safe to assume that he’s getting involved when he shouldn’t be getting involved. He’s dead money long term. However the reality that he’s getting involved puts my “heads-up hand strength” chart in question because, as many of you have said, some hands play better 3 way than 2 way.

Let’s take a look at the top 15…

2way 3way
AA AA
KK KK
QQ QQ
JJ JJ
TT TT
99 99
88 AKs
AKs 88
77 AQs
AQs AJs
AJs AK
AK KQs
ATs ATs
AQ AQ
AJ 77

Now here are some hands in the middle of the above buttons range…

2way 3way(with the laggy BB)
QJ QT(40th overall)
A6 55
K9 A3s
A5 J9s
Q9s K9
K7s A7
JTs K7s
A2s A2s
QT T9s
44 Q8s
A4 K6s
K6s A5
A3 A6
A2 J8s
Q8s Q9
J9s K5s(mid range for button in question)
K5s A4
Q9 K8
JT 44
K4s T8s
Q7s K4s(60th)
K6 Q7s
K3s A3
T9s J9
J8s K7
33 98s


Many posters speak of hands that play well multi-way or post flop. I guess this means that some hands have a range of flops that leave for easier decisions than other hands. Regardless of playability, the lists I’ve presented indicate actual strength against the deck. I admit that the range by which opponents raise and call are different than my mathematically induced list. But I’ll never know how close or far their list of stealing and 3betting hands are to my own.

Finally, the range of hands in question are those that I would choose to play back at the button knowing that the big blind is probably coming along for the ride. According to thye list I’ve presented I would be more inclined to play J9s, Q8s, JT(jumps from 58th HU to 30th 3way!!!), T9s, and J8s.

I would be more inclined to now dump hands that lose value 3way like A4, 44, A3, K7(big dive), and A2.

Perhaps I would now flat call with the hands that play better multiway, thus insuring a multi-way pot and limiting the buttons opportunity to cap. Otherwise I’m 3betting to try and get the dead money.

I realize much of this has been said, often better than I say it. Still, I think the OP brought up some very important points. If we’re going to play thousands of hands in shorthanded situations against a multitude of opponents, it is very important to know that some hands are vastly different in value depending on how many see the flop.