Is It The Dog Breed Or The Owner?

[Colt McCoy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Katy's question stems from the fact that someone she is close to is considering adopting a pitbull that may have been mistreated.

[/ QUOTE ]

Katy's question also only seemed interested in human safety...but whatever.

My main concern here is that if the person adopting isn't going to see the care of the animal through, then please don't adopt. It happens all the time: someone sees a puppy and thinks it really cute and then it turns out to be a lot of work caring for the animal and then they end up dumping the dog somewhere -- whether that be giving the animal to someone equally inept or in a housing situation not right for the dog or just abandoning the animal.

[/ QUOTE ]

Get off your soapbox already. There isn't anything at all in katy's post to indicate the person is going to mistreat or abandon the animal. Just the opposite, he has a friend of a freind who's a breeder and he's been thinking about it for awhile. Also, if that's really your "main concern" you should reconsider your priorities.

[thecincykiddo]

Yup, that's my main concern based on years of experience with pit bulls.

While I doubt very much that katy would post a question like this if her intentions were, well, questionable, that doesn't change the fact that that's probably (almost definitely) the worst thing that could happen, and it would be more detrimental to the dog and not any humans. Myself, I was "attacked" by a German shepherd puppy when I was two, but I don't fear dogs. The dog wasn't on a leash and hadn't been trained to be around kids. He left a hole in one of my cheeks almost the size of a dime.

That's all I've got, katy....hope it helps.

[FatBottomedGirls]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cattle dogs aren't taught to herd. They do it naturally.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? The Blue Merle is a very exceptionally smart kind of Australian Shepherd dog, and I've known several of them. We sent them all off to be trained, and then trained them more specifically again when they came back to the farm. They pick up pretty quick, but it's not like they're born herding, you know...

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, really. Why do you think people choose certain breeds for certain purposes. Partly because they're physically suited for it, but it's much more because the instincts are altready there so they're easier to teach. Like I said, people have them trained to use the instincts in a way that's useful to people. I've also had heelers and Australian cattle dogs. I actually once had a cattle doig that had never seen a cow in his life. We visited some friends who had cattle and he started herding them back & forth all on his own. He didn't do it in any useful way, but he just started doing it with absolutely no encouragement or training.

[casey_brick]

[ QUOTE ]
it's both.

[/ QUOTE ]Vey true one of my brothers was a dog trainer. Ironicaly he adopted a black lab/pitbull that had been mistreated. He worked with that dog for months "to get the mean out of her",as he said. She is now an obediant playful dog who doesn't have a mean bone in her body.

He claimed any dog can be trained with enough hard work and repitition no matter the breed.

[thecincykiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
I actually once had a cattle doig that had never seen a cow in his life. We visited some friends who had cattle and he started herding them back & forth all on his own. He didn't do it in any useful way, but he just started doing it with absolutely no encouragement or training.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's awesome, but that's also rare, no? I'm not sure if one example's enough to make a statement like, "Cattle dogs aren't taught to herd. They do it naturally." Anymore than you can say that "Pitt bulls aren't taught to kill. They do it naturally." It's misleading, that's all.

[DOMIT]

Katy,

I believe in nature vs. nurture, myself. You can't, IMO, say it's strickly one or the other. That said, without knowing the complete background, how do you know what's going to set it off, knowing that it's been mistreated?

Example is a Siberian Huskey that my family owned. It fell down the stairs as a puppy and hurt it's neck. The owners had a little girl that it attacked because it kept trying to pat the dog on the head, and it got a negative re-enforcement association due to the little girl and it's getting hurt. Not having any little kids in our house (at the time I was 14) my mom and brother picked up the dog thinking it would be ok. One time playing with the dog, I had my head next to his, and he bits me on the face.
In every other way, the dog was great; no trouble. I got my face too close, and it probably reminded him of the girl and *SNAP*! I had to pry his jaw off of mine.

I'd have to advise not to get this dog if he's been abused in the past. This type of dog is already known for it's aggression _without_ a bad past.

I know that it's not you getting the dog, and you may have no control.. and this is just one bad experience; but for me personally, I think it would be a bad idea.

Good luck.

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
it's both.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to give me a little more than just a two word reply [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

Do you truly believe that viciousness can be inborn in a breed?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you own a wolf?

b

[Blarg]

When it comes to something like dogs and kids, you both have to like them or it doesn't work the way it should. Nearly any dog can be the sweetest dog in the world if brought up from a very young age in a loving home; if sweetest is what you want, you definitely don't have to go pitbull to get there. Nor do you have the best chance at both sweetest AND non-dangerous if the dog has been previously abused or neglected.

If I were you, the least I would do before even considering taking the animal in would be to have the vet test its aggression and socialization, or have him refer you out to someone who does that, if he does not.

But even better, you both should get in the habit of doing things you BOTH want, not that one person knuckles under about to make the other happy. Sometimes you do have to take a lump or two, but here, it's pretty unnecessary. There are a billion dogs out there; you don't need to get this particular one for any reason. You can both easily find another dog to love, of any number of breeds. So your taking a dog of a breed you're not fond of and are indeed worried about is not one of those things where anything but compromise is foolish or unloving.

[bernie]

Since he wanted one before he could 'rescue' one, why does he want a pitbull? What's the attraction?

Was this one bred and raised by the breeder? If so, how'd it get abused?

Seems alot of the attraction is because of how they're viewed in society. Either they want the 'status' that a pitbull can bring, or they want to prove to everyone that they can tame it.

If it's still a pretty young dog and it's been mistreated, there's a better chance. If it's older, well, you can be rolling the dice more-so here no matter who owns it and how good one is with it. He'd be a fool to say that a mistreated dog is great to have around kids. They can take alot of work to get to be social.

But yes, it's a combination of both. The dog was usually bred for aggression. So I think it's more prone to it than your average dog. Many big egos get these because of the image of a little danger.

b

[bernie]

[ QUOTE ]
If I were you, the least I would do before even considering taking the animal in would be to have the vet test its aggression and socialization, or have him refer you out to someone who does that, if he does not.

[/ QUOTE ]

Great idea.

b