Slow played KK or just shove.

[Body Man D]

Full Tilt 35K with 16 left. I'm prob. 35% of avg. with 8.5 big blinds in need of double up. Hadn't shoved in several orbits so tight image. Picked up KK UTG.

Being this short in chips I want to extract max value from the kings. The table had been fairly tight in calling small stack shoves. To get max value from KK do you just shove or make smallish raise with hopes of getting action from small/medium pairs and A,x type hands?


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Tournament
Blinds: t1000/t2000
(Ante: t250)
8 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: t97603
Hero: t16793
MP1: t29149
MP2: t115334
CO: t36324
Button: t51000
SB: t95797
BB: t204787

Pre-flop: (8 players) Hero is UTG+1 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, <font color="#cc0000">Hero ??

[Mclane665]

I would make it 4-5k to go and see what happens or you could limp and hope someone else tries to steal later on but its risky.

[Cornell Fiji]

[ QUOTE ]
Hadn't shoved in several orbits so tight image... The table had been fairly tight in calling small stack shoves.

[/ QUOTE ]

[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]



[/ QUOTE ]

Your M is 3. You must shove. Any other raise is clearly pot committing so it should be treated as being stronger than a push. You can not risk an EP limp as people might be suspicious and limp behind with a hand like 99 that they would have called your push with.

[TheDreamer]

With your tight image and the table's reluctancy to call all ins i think limping is fine (with ur stack size people will double you up if they hit top pair) but of course shoving is fine as well.

[JoseGonzlez]

the limp play basically works best at an ultra aggressive table and it helps alot if you have limped some pots before.

Good players might actually be more suspicious of a limp than a shove.

Like Fiji says though at a tight table you should be shoving alot and than you shove the KK and hopefully get called.

[RonFezBuddy]

I'm looking at the BB's stack and thinking he's likely to call a PF raise to around 5k, unless you have a specific read that would tell you otherwise.

If you raise to 5k, and he (or someone else calls), what do you do on an Axx flop?

[Mclane665]

wince and then push all in anyway Im not walking away from this one

[Supwithbates]

Shoving is clearly correct. Let me explain why.
Say you raise to 5k, with a stack of 16k. You're doing this with full knowledge that you're shoving ANY flop, even if an ace hits.

What are your perceived advantages of raising less than all-in? You reduce fold equity, and hope that someone calls you down lighter. The problem comes when this is true. If you raise to 5k with blinds at 1/2k, then the BB has to call 3k to win 8k, and so he's already getting close to the express odds he needs to call with an a/x type hand. Add in the 11k in implied odds and you're giving this guy a bargain, not forcing a mistake.

Shove all day long. AA is the only hand that I will sometimes consider anything less than shoving here.

[TwistedEcho]

[ QUOTE ]
If you raise to 5k, and he (or someone else calls), what do you do on an Axx flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

check, im not folding but if you bet no worse hand will call. At least let him try to bluff you. If he has the ace hes not folding if you bet anyway.

I would rarely make this 5k anyway, pretty much all the hands that call 5k will call a push, and then u dont have to worry about scaring 99/TT/JJ out the pot if an overcard comes.

[ASPoker8]

Body Man,

imo Shoving &gt; 6000 &gt; limping