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#1
10-05-2007, 03:43 AM
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Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
In a heads up pot, guy 1 checks the river. Guy 2 pauses then stacks all his chips up and slides them forward past his cards. They move past the cards and are still in his hand, and Guy 1 instantly calls. So guy 2 still has his hands on the chips and pulls them back, then says I check. They call the floor over for a decision. What should it be?
There is no betting line at this casino. 
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#3
10-05-2007, 05:26 AM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
[ QUOTE ]
In a heads up pot, guy 1 checks the river. Guy 2 pauses then stacks all his chips up and slides them forward past his cards. They move past the cards and are still in his hand, and Guy 1 instantly calls. So guy 2 still has his hands on the chips and pulls them back, then says I check. They call the floor over for a decision. What should it be? There is no betting line at this casino. [/ QUOTE ] Guy 1 should learn to wait until cards are completely released given we live in a world of angles. That said Guy 2 "stacked all his chips" and slides them apparently in unison past his cards. I think his intention to bet all his chips has been made clear. I'd rule the bet stands. Note that this isn't the same as a player palming a stack of twenty or so chips and cutting off let's say six for his lead bet. This method of betting has become commonplace in my area (LA) and therefore is accepted practice. Here the second player should wait to see how many chips are cut off before calling. ~ Rick
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#4
10-05-2007, 05:34 AM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
I can't imagine a floor in AC ruling this anything other than an all-in and call. Coming forward with his stack will do it... you can't just push forward your chips and then bring them back in (at least not where I've worked or played).
That said, it's unwise for the other player to act until he gets the all-in acknowledged from the dealer. As far as people coming out with a stack and drop-cutting some amount, that's pretty common practice here too.
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#6
10-05-2007, 10:19 AM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
I would rule that he made a bet.
I think this is different than having chips in your hand and putting your hand out. These chips are on the felt and have moved into an area that is clearly intended as a bet. A similar situation is when a player is contemplating a call of a river bet. If he pushes chips out and this causes the bettor to flip over his winning hand, then the action is considered a call. See the parenthesis in this rule in Robert's: 13. A player who bets or calls by releasing chips into the pot is bound by that action and must make the amount of the wager correct. (This also applies right before the showdown when putting chips into the pot causes the opponent to show the winning hand before the full amount needed to call has been put into the pot.) So anyways, if it's my cardroom it's a bet and if you don't like it, take your angleshooting ass and play somewhere else.
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#7
10-05-2007, 12:29 PM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
I don't know why people automatically think it was an angle shoot because player 1 called prematurely. Player 2 may still be deciding how much to bet. Please re-read the statement above about rule 13 - I believe the rule says "releasing chips" which the player clearly did not do. If the bold part is supposed to mean something in this situation it doesn't. No opponent showed a winning hand while betting was taking place.
Now, player 1 knows exactly what he is doing in this situation. This is a play I use atleast once a session. Say I'm player 1 and check the river, as player 2 begins to put chips in the pot to bet I instantly say all in. Now player 2 doesn't know what to think and more times than not they fold. The difference between OP and my situation is the person had released some chips in my situation (stacking stacks of 5 trying to bet 15) thus allowing him to fold at around 10 chips and save the last 5 (because he hasn't released the 3rd stack of 5).
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#8
10-05-2007, 01:00 PM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
[ QUOTE ]
... Player 2 may still be deciding how much to bet. ... [/ QUOTE ] How could player 2 be doing anything but going all in? From the OP Player 2 stacked all of his chips and pushed (not picked up one stack, PUSHED) them forward, past his cards. I don't care if Player 2 is connected to his chips by an umbilical cord. He's still gone all in. And he sure as H#(( can't check.
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#10
10-05-2007, 01:43 PM
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Re: Floor Ruling on a player\'s action
Player two is all in.
He stacked his chips, made a betting motion, moved his chips past his cards, and his chips are on the felt. While player one should have waited a second or two, player 2s action is clear and he's all in.
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