Cheating at a poker room?

[bav]

Either OP's story is a bit garbled, or it isn't collusion. A cheating team doesn't signal "I'm about to fold" to the player behind; that's what a poor player who is accidentally or uncaringly telecasting his intentions does. A cheating team signals "I need you to bet after I check" to the player behind, or "I need you to raise behind me" or signals to the player in front "I want to bet, you should check raise". Those are useful signals.

[Don O]

No, this is Dave. He has been around for awhile playing Las Vegas

[andyfox]

I don't know about the Bellagio, but I've been playing in So. Calif. cardrooms since the late '70s and I agree that the cardrooms basically don't care. The smarter cheaters tip generously and are therefore "friends" of the floor personnel. Gambling and cheating have always gone hand in hand, always will. When I first starting playing, the players dealt themselves, there were no house dealers. You can imagine what went on then.

That said, an accusation of cheating is a serious thing. If OP got some sarcastic commments and doubts it's because he made, IMO, a very poor case in his post.

[coyote]

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Yea, sue is a cute small asian chick with black hair.

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Good description. Very detailed. Aside from the "cute" adjective, you suceeded in describing what, like 90% of asian girls?

[andyfox]

"Do they need to collude? No, they are both better than average players."

I've never bought into this argument. I've seen a billionaire give his golf ball a toe-nudge when we've had $5 at stake. I know Andy Beal insisted on playing the coporation head-up. I know Barry looks at his cards quickly and then covers them up. I've seen excellent players signal each other; I've heard them tell each other what to do.

My dad insists professional sports isn't fixed these days because the players already make too much money. Bull. The more they make, the more they want.

[sternroolz]

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Yea, sue is a cute small asian chick with black hair.

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Good description. Very detailed. Aside from the "cute" adjective, you suceeded in describing what, like 90% of asian girls?

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There are very few cute late 20's asian women regularly playing $5-10 NL in Vegas. I'm pretty certain all the regular locals in this level game recognize each other.

I only play one weekend a month and typically recognize half the players at a $10-20, $15-30, or $20-40 LHE table at Wynn, Bellagio, or Mirage.

[Diana Ross Fan]

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Did the Bellagio bar you for something and this is your way of "getting back"?

So these two were "regulars". And in all this time, nobody caught on to their "routine" except OP? Oh, I forgot. The staff are corrupt too. That's the point of the post. Not that you "caught" two colluders, but that everybody should avoid the Bellagio.

I don't buy what you are selling.

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You just attacked the OP because you don't like his conclusions?

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Technically he "attacked" his conclusion. And yeah, that's pretty much what you're supposed to do when someone's conclusion doesn't measure up with the presented facts.

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He suggested that the Bellagio had barred the OP and this was "getting back"

[soah]

Nothing described in the OP actually sounds like evidence of cheating. If they are actually trying to cheat then they apparently have not the slightest clue what they are doing.

I believe I may have played with them a couple times although I don't ask people's names when I play with them so I can't be sure... I didn't notice anything unusual but I wasn't really watching for it either.

[GreedIsGood]

Okay, maybe I'm missing something.

But if you were so sure that they were they were colluding to isolate players and then push them off of their hands, why didn't you let them isolate you and then come over the top of their presumptive garbage hands?

After all, you’d ‘know’ if she re-raised post-flop that they had nothing, and that if she flat called post-flop that they were trying to suck you in.

Or, again, am I missing something here?

[*TT*]

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"Do they need to collude? No, they are both better than average players."

I've never bought into this argument.

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its not an argument I am presenting, just showing that if it was that obvious that they were colluding then something doesn't add up. They play well and often enough that if they were colluding they would know how to hide it better. Placing a chip on a players cards is not a signal, there are much harder to detect signals that can be used. Many locals use the chip on the card to show intent, but its not collusion. Its more common to find poor players who are colluding than good players, of course that doesnt mean they didn't do it, it only means they are less likely to fit the profile of a colluder.